Premier Park, Exeter Road Car Park

Shepton50

1:  Will the extra part of my response as above still apply if the NKT is POFA compliant ?

No.

Thanks for your reply

Can I assume that my NTK is POFA compliant ?

Le_Kirk

Shepton50 said:

1:  Will the extra part of my response as above still apply if the NKT is POFA compliant ?

No.

Thanks for your reply

Can I assume that my NTK is POFA compliant ?

Have you checked the wording and dates of your NtK against the POFA 2012: -
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
or against the pictures that @Coupon-mad posted recently showing POFA and non-POFA NtKs?

Shepton50

Shepton50 said:

This is the same as your 2nd example dated October 2023 which you stated is POFA compliant, however mine is dated in June 2023 and the non compliant letter in your post was in August 2023

Le_Kirk
I had checked against the photos as mentioned above.
I was asking for clarification because my NTK was dated before the non compliant NKT from August.
It seemed strange that they would send out a compliant NKT in June, then send a non compliant NKT in August and another compliant one in October.
I was hoping for a simple yes it is or no it's not.

Coupon-mad

No not strange. The dates are irrelevant and nothing changed between one date and another. All PPCs have two versions.

Shepton50

Hello all

Eventually had a reply from Gladstones solicitors as below.
I sent the Generic reply as suggested in the newbies thread:      

Proposed Legal Proceedings

Claimant: Premier Park Ltd

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:

( address entered here )

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

This was their reply:

Thank you for your correspondence and apologies for the delay in responding.

Further to your recent correspondence , we refer you to the BPA code of practice Part B 19.5. This confirms the following:

‘We would not expect this amount to be more than £100’ 

And in Part B 23.1(b) which confirms;  

‘…a reasonable sum may be added for the debt recovery fees. This sum must not exceed £70’  

Motorists can park on the site in accordance with the terms and conditions on the sign, without incurring a charge but to park without incurring a charge they may need to display a permit; purchase a pay and display ticket; become an authorized user, it is whatever the sign states. If a motorist wishes to park ‘as they please’ within reason, they can do so but pay a charge for this ‘privilege’

Our client remains satisfied this charge was correctly issued and you are liable.

Should full payment fail to be discharged before the 10th July 2024, our client reserves the right to issue further legal proceedings against you without further recourse to yourself.

Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows: 

Gladstones Solicitors Ltd 

Barclays Bank 

Account Number: xxxxxx 

Sort Code: xxxxxx

Reference: xxxxxx

Amount Due: £170.00

Alternatively, you can make payment online at www.gladstonessolicitors.co.uk or via the automated payment line on 0333 0230 049 quoting reference xxxxxx.

You must include your reference xxxxxx when making payment. If you fail to do so, we may be unable to allocate your payment. This may result in further costs being incurred, for which you will be liable.

No reply about the VAT question !!

What is my next move ?
Or do I wait for a claim to come through 

Coupon-mad

Reply and require them to answer how VAT is apportioned on the 'debt recovery fee' element.

Shepton50

Hi all

After a long delay, I have had another reply from Gladstone solicitors as below.

Thank you for your email and apologies for the delay in responding.

1. The Amount Due/ Debt includes £70.00 claimed by our Client for the time/resources spent facilitating the recovery of the unpaid parking charge notice(s) pursuant to its ATA’s Code of Practice and the Terms and Conditions of the Contract, which was entered into upon the driver of the vehicle entering the Relevant Land. The amount is a pre-determined and nominal contribution to our Client’s losses as a direct result of your non-payment. VAT is not applicable as the parking charge notice which was issued to you is a contractual charge you have not been provided with a vatable service.

2. Motorists can park on the site in accordance with the terms and conditions on the sign, without incurring a charge but to park without incurring a charge they may need to display a permit; purchase a pay and display ticket for the full duration of stay; become an authorised user, it is whatever the sign states. If a motorists wishes to park ‘as they please’ within reason, they can do so but pay a charge for this ‘privilege’, the charge is set out on the signs and by a motorist parking otherwise than in accordance with the signs they accept the charge at the point of parking and a valid contract is formed. The charge is due within 28 days of being incurred, if the charge remains unpaid after this date the contract the motorist entered into is breached and a debt is owed to our Client, they are then entitled to damages that have occurred as a result of the breach.

Our Client remains satisfied this charge was issued correctly and we invite you to make payment of the outstanding balance, in full, within 14 days of this email.

Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows: 

Gladstones Solicitors Ltd 

Barclays Bank 

Account Number: ******** 

Sort Code: ********

Amount Due: £170.00

Alternatively, you can make payment online at www.gladstonessolicitors.co.uk or via the automated payment line on 0333 0230 049 quoting your reference. 

You must include your reference when making payment. If you fail to do so, we may be unable to allocate your payment. This may result in further costs being incurred, for which you will be liable. 

Should full payment not be forthcoming within the time frame specified, we are instructed to issue legal proceedings to recover the outstanding balance in full. Should it become necessary to issue legal proceedings, we suggest you follow the steps on the Claim Form upon receipt of the same.

What is my next step in reply to this ?

Coupon-mad

Dear Sirs,

You appear to be deliberately misleading me by saying: "VAT is not applicable as the parking charge notice which was issued to you is a contractual charge you have not been provided with a vatable service."

Stop pretending this isn't your own 'debt recovery fee' (which you keep, not the parking firm). I say this because Gladstones introduced this novel idea - first adding £50 - when you first rocked up on the parking scene and advertised 'no win no fee' to operators.  This was published in the IPC newsletter over a decade ago.

This is your success fee isn't it?

You are providing a VATable service for your client, so VAT applies to this 'fee'.

It is not part of the parking charge and nothing to do with 'work' undertaken by one of your rogue parking industry clients. This is your fee. Your share of the spoils.

So, I ask again: why am I expected to pay your client's fee for your VATable service and why am I expected to pay the VAT element when HMRC has ruled that that cannot be charged to a consumer because the service is provided to the trader?

If you don't understand the question, kindly pass the file to a grown-up.  I require a proper answer not your template one that makes out that you are providing your service free.

Don't be ridiculous. Try again.

yours faithfully

Shepton50

Thanks for your reply, I will send this on and await their response in around 4 months !!!

Coupon-mad

I'm toying with the idea of throwing in the landmark court case about commission having to be declared to the consumer...