Pension overpayment of partner who passed away

Marcon

Northstar2 said:

Sorry I searched and no exact topic seems to come up on forum. I read this article from MSE that pensions have no power to ask repayment after death.

my issue is not a state pension though but a work pension. It says on this article that anything mentioned after death is not valid. But on my case, advice I had seems to be saying otherwise, and they still can get money. Please help me on any government site that I can use as reference. 

Government sites won't help you, so there won't be one to use as a reference.

Private pension schemes normally have a duty to seek repayment of any overpayments, not least in fairness to other parties who are members of the same pension arrangement.

The delay of a year is, sadly, not uncommon and I'm afraid doesn't impact on the need to repay the amount. If you can't afford to do so in one go, then ask to repay over a period.

Savvy_Sue

Brie said:

Some schemes allow the estate or remaining spouse to retain the final month's payment if notification of death is fairly prompt.  So if A was paid on 1st June for the month of June and died on 5th June then that month's payment may not need to be repaid.  Frankly this is because it will take too much time and effort by the administrators to calculate, inform, chase for the amount from 6 - 30 June.  It also appears very insensitive. 

Even more insensitive if they do require repayment and notification was given promptly ... but that doesn't seem to be the situation here. 

Northstar2 said:

@brie there was no delay at all. They tell me this error after a year

It might help if you clarified what has happened. Is the pension provider requesting a repayment of the final month, but only a year after your partner died? Or are they claiming that he was paid more pension that he was entitled to before he died? 

Did he leave a will? If he left a will, then this would be one to pass to the executors, if that wasn't you. If he didn't leave a will but you had to get letters of administration, the problem would sit with you (or whoever applied for letters of administration). 

If there were no funds in his estate (no property, nothing left in bank accounts after paying for funeral) then the executor would write and tell them that the estate was insolvent and therefore impossible to repay. 

Brie

I would be asking them for a complete explanation of what the error was, how it was made (given that everything should have been double checked) prior to getting into anything about possibly repaying.  If it will be a financial strain repaying anything you could ask that there be trustee discretion used considering where the error was made and how long it has taken to discover it, as well as the dreadful timing.  If that gets you no where you could try appealing to whatever employment body, company worked for, union, employee benevolent fund etc to assist.  If you are able to tell us (publicly or privately) what the pension scheme is or the complany we may be able to offer more specific assistance on this.

Spendless

Wasn't there any correspondence at the time? My Mum received one from my Grandad's pension provider when my Nan died earlier this year just along the lines of Sorry to hear of your loss and thank you for informing us, we will/have paid £x into this account for the period date to date.   

Marcon

Northstar2 said:

@Savvy_Sue does it matter if error was discovered after death? He was paid way before he died. Now that no one can answer, they come out?

The timing of the discovery doesn't alter the obligation on the scheme to seek repayment, I'm afraid. The fact he was paid 'way before he died' suggests it is some sort of systemic error which has just come to light.

Brie said:

I would be asking them for a complete explanation of what the error was, how it was made (given that everything should have been double checked) prior to getting into anything about possibly repaying.  

Completely agree about asking for an explanation, but if the error was some sort of system error, or a failure to apply the rules correctly which has been wrong for some time,  'double checking' won't necessarily have identified it, which is why it has only now come to light.

Northstar2

@uknick it’s 4K. I understand now their obligation to reclaim, but I just wanted to know where is my legal stand on this in case I complain. It wasn’t the pensioner’s fault, and gone to dispute with them. It is not fair for my late partner and is so upsetting.

Northstar2

Savvy_Sue said:

Brie said:

Some schemes allow the estate or remaining spouse to retain the final month's payment if notification of death is fairly prompt.  So if A was paid on 1st June for the month of June and died on 5th June then that month's payment may not need to be repaid.  Frankly this is because it will take too much time and effort by the administrators to calculate, inform, chase for the amount from 6 - 30 June.  It also appears very insensitive. 

Even more insensitive if they do require repayment and notification was given promptly ... but that doesn't seem to be the situation here. 

Northstar2 said:

@brie there was no delay at all. They tell me this error after a year

It might help if you clarified what has happened. Is the pension provider requesting a repayment of the final month, but only a year after your partner died? Or are they claiming that he was paid more pension that he was entitled to before he died? 

Did he leave a will? If he left a will, then this would be one to pass to the executors, if that wasn't you. If he didn't leave a will but you had to get letters of administration, the problem would sit with you (or whoever applied for letters of administration). 

If there were no funds in his estate (no property, nothing left in bank accounts after paying for funeral) then the executor would write and tell them that the estate was insolvent and therefore impossible to repay. 

So, he was paid months before he died with a lump sum. When he passed away, I reported it to them but said nothing. I applied for widower’s pension months later and they said I had none. Then months later they send a letter of the overpayment, saying their error of paying him as a single person and not with a partner. 

I understand now they have an obligation, but wouldn’t their error make their claim invalid at this point? I wanted to know my legal basis on this as I want to complain. It has given me sleepless nights now.

Northstar2

Marcon said:

Northstar2 said:

@Savvy_Sue does it matter if error was discovered after death? He was paid way before he died. Now that no one can answer, they come out?

The timing of the discovery doesn't alter the obligation on the scheme to seek repayment, I'm afraid. The fact he was paid 'way before he died' suggests it is some sort of systemic error which has just come to light.

Brie said:

I would be asking them for a complete explanation of what the error was, how it was made (given that everything should have been double checked) prior to getting into anything about possibly repaying.  

Completely agree about asking for an explanation, but if the error was some sort of system error, or a failure to apply the rules correctly which has been wrong for some time,  'double checking' won't necessarily have identified it, which is why it has only now come to light.

All the same, it’s their error and problem and not mine, right? Is that excuse giving them the right to get back money they are disputing from a dead person? I want to know the legal basis…

Northstar2

Spendless said:

Wasn't there any correspondence at the time? My Mum received one from my Grandad's pension provider when my Nan died earlier this year just along the lines of Sorry to hear of your loss and thank you for informing us, we will/have paid £x into this account for the period date to date.   

I called when I informed and not heard of them. They only wrote to me when they send me form to fill up for the widower’s pension and their reply. Then they wrote again about the error and asking repayment which was non-stop since then. Now it’s a solicitor writing me. Really traumatising.

Northstar2

@Savvy_Sue and yes I am the executor why I am the one they’re chasing. About the estate being insolvent, I wonder how much they are entitled to dig on those information for details or is it just what I present them?