question about NIP in company van

Grey_Critic

The  delay in you (or employer in this case) finding out is that the NIP was sent to the registered keeper who once they have established from their records IF the vehicle was on hire or not contacted your company.

The delay is nothin,g to do with the post but simply the administration time at the hire company. Happens all the time.

TooManyPoints

 Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly

No you're not. You are misunderstanding the legislation.

The day it was posted is of no concern to you unless it was served late (i.e. after 31st). If it was delivered on or before the 31st it was served in time and when it was posted is irrelevant. So, the questions you need answers to are these:

1. Who is the Registered Keeper? You need to be sure of this and the only way to be sure is to see the V5C with their details correctly shown at the top.

2. When did they receive their NIP? It can either be on or before 31st May or after it.

If it was on or before, that is the end of the matter. It was served in time and the police have fulfilled their responsibilities under s1 of the RTOA.

If it was after, the burden shifts to you to convince the court of that fact. This is where the date of posting may be helpful. The police enjoy the "presumption of service" of two working days after posting (as provided by s7 of the Interpretation Act). So in your case, because of the Bank Holiday weekend, the NIP would have to have been posted on or before Friday 26th. If the police cannot satisfactorily demonstrate that it was posted by 26th, the prosecution cannot succeed. In practice, if the police cannot show that it was posted in time, they would be unlikely to proceed with the prosecution.

There is something else I do not understand:

The way it's happened so far is my work were contacted on the 13th June to request my details,...

Who by and what for? If it was the rental company all they need to do is to provide your employer's details. Your employer would then receive his own NIP and s172 request and can then name you as the driver. The date you mention seems to expose a considerable gap between when the first NIP should have been served and now. I strongly suspect that the first NIP went somewhere else other than the rental company, but of course cannot be sure. You need to find the answers to the questions I mentioned.

You need to be absolutely sure of your ground before embarking on a "late NIP" defence. Once your case enters the court system all offers of a course or fixed penalty are off the table. As well as that, conviction following a trial will see you with little change from £1k. I'm not pointing out these hazards to be awkward - I'm doing so in order that you do not come unstuck.

molotovdog

Car_54 said:

molotovdog said:

Hopefully I get off with a speed awareness course, which I think is more likely than getting off completely due the NIP being served late

Yes, 37 in a 30 limit will see the offer of a course, provided:
1.  You haven't done one in the past three years
2. The offence was in England or Wales, and 
3. The inevitable delays in the chain of communications don't go beyond about four months.

Well 1 and 2 are fine, and hopefully with my boss having provided my info the other day, it shouldn't drag out too much longer (hopefully)

retiringtoosoon

You could, you know, accept the fact that you were caught speeding rather than desperately trying to weedle out of it. Have you tried taking some personal responsibility for your actions? Just a thought…

Car_54

retiringtoosoon said:

You could, you know, accept the fact that you were caught speeding rather than desperately trying to weedle out of it. Have you tried taking some personal responsibility for your actions? Just a thought…

Whilst the OP has a responsibility to obey the law, so too do the police.

If it turns out that they have failed to serve the NIP in the time required (which seems unlikely) then they cannot lawfully prosecute the OP. That is not 'weedling out' - it is upholding the rule of law.

molotovdog

retiringtoosoon said:

You could, you know, accept the fact that you were caught speeding rather than desperately trying to weedle out of it. Have you tried taking some personal responsibility for your actions? Just a thought…

Who says I'm not, I've made it perfectly clear, many times, that I'm fine with getting the speed awareness course or whatever happens, I was simply curious about how it all works with the timescales of receiving things like this, as I've never had anything like it before and six weeks after the event seemed like a long time. Would you like some help getting back on your high horse now?

molotovdog

Just found out, the rental company (the registered keeper) received the NIP on the 25th May and was posted on the 24th, so it seems like the police did leave it longer than I thought they would and got quite close to being too late, which surprises me as I'd assumed they'd do it ASAP to make the chance of it being "too late" as small as possible.

Grey_Critic

You were clocked on 17th May which was a Saturday - the NIP was posted on 24th (a Friday) pretty quick I would suggest seeing there was a weekend involved - the rest as I have said before was it going through the rental companies system - pretty slow compared tom the issuing of the NIP

molotovdog

Grey_Critic said:

You were clocked on 17th May which was a Saturday - the NIP was posted on 24th (a Friday) pretty quick I would suggest seeing there was a weekend involved - the rest as I have said before was it going through the rental companies system - pretty slow compared tom the issuing of the NIP

Not quite mate, I was clocked on the 17th, which was a Wednesday and they didn't post it out until the following weds, the 24th. Only a week, so still not really slow, but slower than I'd expect considering they only have 14 days maximum for them to not only post it but for it to also be "considersd served" to the registered keeper, so with that in mind (as the two day presumption doesnt count bank holidays or weekends) they only had until the 26th to post it and have it still fall within the 14 day maximum.

ive never had any tickets or anything, either from an in person copper or a camera etc... so I've always assumed it'd all be automated/computerised and therfor get sent out the next day or similar, perhaps some of it is still done/checked over by real people.

As you say, the majority of the delay seems to be from when the rental company replied to when the police then contacted my work, be interesting to see how long they take to contact me directly as I think they're allowed up to 28 days, hopefully they don't take quite that long as I'd prefer to get it all sorted ASAP.

TooManyPoints

...be interesting to see how long they take to contact me directly as I think they're allowed up to 28 days,

That's not correct. They actually have as long as they like. In fact, the first NIP is the only one required by law at all. Any sent subsequently are not legally required and so cannot be subject to any time limit. They are provided out of courtesy but mainly because they are usually printed on the same piece of paper - or at least produced by the same system - as the "Section 172 Request" for driver's details. There is no time limit on a s172 request. The only time limit the police must adhere to other than the 14 day limit for the first NIP is the overriding limit of six months from the date of the offence to commence prosecution in the court for the speeding offence.