question about NIP in company van

molotovdog

I got the dreaded message from work today, apparently I was caught speeding, 37 in a 30, back on May 17th.

It's the first time I've ever had anything like this, I've got everything crossed I get the speed awareness course.

When looking it all up, I realised its been quite a while since the 16l7th May.

From what I understand, the NIP must be dated within 14 calendar days from the offence and that includes weekends. I also read that the NIP is only presumed served two working days after its sent date.

So if I've done my maths correctly, the company work rents the van from (the registered keeper), would need to have received the NIP by the 26th May, as the 27th and 28 are non working days, the 29th was a Bank Holiday, and 14 days after the offence would be the 31st.

I'm aware it's a very long shot, but I thought it's worth getting my boss to check when the rental place got the NIP (or rather the date on the NIP they got) just in case (I'm fairly sure all the delay is just due to them not contacting work very quickly and/or work not telling my boss very quickly) but I wanted to check my understanding before hand

Bigphil1474

I believe the first day you count is the day after the offence, so the 14th day is the 31st. Plus you've got delivery time to be added on if there were any postal issues they may have received it in early June. So long as the NIP is dated the 31st or earlier, then I would say you have no chance.

Car_54

molotovdog said:

I got the dreaded message from work today, apparently I was caught speeding, 37 in a 30, back on May 17th.

It's the first time I've ever had anything like this, I've got everything crossed I get the speed awareness course.

When looking it all up, I realised its been quite a while since the 16l7th May.

From what I understand, the NIP must be dated within 14 calendar days from the offence and that includes weekends. I also read that the NIP is only presumed served two working days after its sent date.

So if I've done my maths correctly, the company work rents the van from (the registered keeper), would need to have received the NIP by the 26th May, as the 27th and 28 are non working days, the 29th was a Bank Holiday, and 14 days after the offence would be the 31st.

I'm aware it's a very long shot, but I thought it's worth getting my boss to check when the rental place got the NIP (or rather the date on the NIP they got) just in case (I'm fairly sure all the delay is just due to them not contacting work very quickly and/or work not telling my boss very quickly) but I wanted to check my understanding before hand

The law requires the NIP to be served (delivered), NOT dated or posted, within 14 days, i.e. received on or before the 31st.

The rental company don't need to notify your employer: they simply respond to the police with your company details. Your company then get their own NIP, and name you, and eventually you get a NIP in your own name. Everyone has 28 days to reply, so you may hear nothing for a while yet.

TooManyPoints

So if I've done my maths correctly, the company work rents the van from (the registered keeper), would need to have received the NIP by the 26th May,

So long as the NIP is dated the 31st or earlier, then I would say you have no chance.

Both of those are incorrect. A NIP must be served on the Registered Keeper within 14 days of the alleged offence. So with an offence date of  Wednesday 17th May, the NIP must be served by Wednesday 31st May. There is no accommodation in the legislation for non-working days or postal delays. It must be served within 14 days of the offence, plain and simple. This is provided for by s1 of the Road Traffic Offenders' Act.

The date the NIP was raised or posted would only come into play if there was a dispute over the timeliness of its service. If it was dated or posted after day 12 the police could not rely on the 2 working day presumption of service to show it was served in time. If it entered the postal service on day 12, provided that day was a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, it would be deemed served two days later. If it was a Thursday it would be deemed served the following Monday and if it was a Friday it would be deemed served the following Tuesday. Obviously further complications arise where Bank or Public Holidays are involved.

One other thing to consider is that you do not know that the rental company is the Registered Keeper. Some rental firms buy cars under finance arrangements and the finance company is the RK. With 33 days having elapsed since the offence, your employer's NIP could possibly be the third in the chain.

molotovdog

TooManyPoints said:

So if I've done my mathscorrectly, the company work rents the van from (the registered keeper), would need to have received the NIP by the 26th May,

So long as the NIP is dated the 31st or earlier, then I would say you have no chance.

Both of those are incorrect. A NIP must be served on the Registered Keeper within 14 days of the alleged offence. So with an offence date of  Wednesday 17th May, the NIP must be served by Wednesday 31st May. There is no accommodation in the legislation for non-working days or postal delays. It must be served within 14 days of the offence, plain and simple. This is provided for by s1 of the Road Traffic Offenders' Act.

The date the NIP was raised or posted would only come into play if there was a dispute over the timeliness of its service. If it was dated or posted after day 12 the police could not rely on the 2 working day presumption of service to show it was served in time. If it entered the postal service on day 12, provided that day was a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, it would be deemed served two days later. If it was a Thursday it would be deemed served the following Monday and if it was a Friday it would be deemed served the following Tuesday. Obviously further complications arise where Bank or Public Holidays are involved.

One other thing to consider is that you do not know that the rental company is the Registered Keeper. Some rental firms buy cars under finance arrangements and the finance company is the RK. With 33 days having elapsed since the offence, your employer's NIP could possibly be the third in the chain.

You say I'm wrong, but then you basically agree with me. The rental firm is the registered keeper, the alleges offence was the 17th, so they must be served within 14 days, as you say that would be the 31st, however, that Monday (29th) was a Bank Holiday, which doesn't count towards the 2 working day presumption, so they would need to have it posted on the Fri, the 26th, and then the two working days would be the 30th and 31st, being the 13th and 14th days since the alleged offence. Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly

molotovdog

Car_54 said:

molotovdog said:

I got the dreaded message from work today, apparently I was caught speeding, 37 in a 30, back on May 17th.

It's the first time I've ever had anything like this, I've got everything crossed I get the speed awareness course.

When looking it all up, I realised its been quite a while since the 16l7th May.

From what I understand, the NIP must be dated within 14 calendar days from the offence and that includes weekends. I also read that the NIP is only presumed served two working days after its sent date.

So if I've done my maths correctly, the company work rents the van from (the registered keeper), would need to have received the NIP by the 26th May, as the 27th and 28 are non working days, the 29th was a Bank Holiday, and 14 days after the offence would be the 31st.

I'm aware it's a very long shot, but I thought it's worth getting my boss to check when the rental place got the NIP (or rather the date on the NIP they got) just in case (I'm fairly sure all the delay is just due to them not contacting work very quickly and/or work not telling my boss very quickly) but I wanted to check my understanding before hand

The law requires the NIP to be served (delivered), NOT dated or posted, within 14 days, i.e. received on or before the 31st.

The rental company don't need to notify your employer: they simply respond to the police with your company details. Your company then get their own NIP, and name you, and eventually you get a NIP in your own name. Everyone has 28 days to reply, so you may hear nothing for a while yet.

Yes, that was what I meant, I know it has to be delivered within 14 days from the alleged offence to the registered keeper. 14 days from the 17th is the 31st. However when I looked it up it says that it can only be "presumed served" (delivered) two working days after posting, so that would normally mean the Monday 29th, so the two working days would be Tues and Wed and it'd all be within the 14 days. However that Monday was a Bank Holiday and apparently those aren't counted for the two working days, so that pushes it back to needing to have been dated Fri the 26th, so then you'd get the weekend and bank holiday, then the two days for it to be presumed served.

The way it's happened so far is my work were contacted on the 13th June to request my details, so my boss has contacted thr rental company to see when they were first contacted.

molotovdog

Bigphil1474 said:

I believe the first day you count is the day after the offence, so the 14th day is the 31st. Plus you've got delivery time to be added on if there were any postal issues they may have received it in early June. So long as the NIP is dated the 31st or earlier, then I would say you have no chance.

From everything I've read, the NIP must be served within 14 calendar days of the alleged offence, which is the 31st and there's no allowances made for postal delays etc... However it can only be "considered served" two working days after posting. That Monday was a Bank Holiday, so for it to be considered served within the 14 calendar days, it'll need to have been posted to the registered keeper by the Fri 26th.

Car_54

OP, are you sure the rental company are the registered keeper? It's not uncommon for them in turn to have leased the vehicle, and for the finance company to be the RK.

Genuinely late NIPs seem to be very rare these days (except for postal strikes): the police are well aware of the deadline and have systems in place to ensure it's met.

molotovdog

Car_54 said:

OP, are you sure the rental company are the registered keeper? It's not uncommon for them in turn to have leased the vehicle, and for the finance company to be the RK.

Genuinely late NIPs seem to be very rare these days (except for postal strikes): the police are well aware of the deadline and have systems in place to ensure it's met.

Thats what I'm waiting to hear about. My boss has emailed the rental company y to enquire when they heard etc... as far as we're all aware the rental company do own their fleet as something about that came up in the past for some reason. As I mentioned I'm not really thinking ill "get off" from it being late, it was just the fact its been six weeks or so from the offence that made me curious and I figured it can't hurt to look into it.

Hopefully I get off with a speed awareness course, which I think is more likely than getting off completely due the NIP being served late

Car_54

molotovdog said:

Hopefully I get off with a speed awareness course, which I think is more likely than getting off completely due the NIP being served late

Yes, 37 in a 30 limit will see the offer of a course, provided:
1.  You haven't done one in the past three years
2. The offence was in England or Wales, and 
3. The inevitable delays in the chain of communications don't go beyond about four months.

SpudGunPaul

Bigphil1474 said:

I believe the first day you count is the day after the offence, so the 14th day is the 31st. Plus you've got delivery time to be added on if there were any postal issues they may have received it in early June. So long as the NIP is dated the 31st or earlier, then I would say you have no chance.

Can you point us towards the legislation that allows for delivery time?