Worcester Bosch Guarantees - Worthless ?

HUMBUG

Simonon77 said:

grumbler said:

Simonon77 said:

ComicGeek said:

But we're talking about a boiler installed in 2019, not 20 years ago. The rules really haven't changed much in the last 4 years.

I don't know of any boilers that don't require a dedicated isolator switch, even back in 2019. The installer would have had to physcially fit the plug (hopefully with a 3A fuse and not 13A), so should have just done it properly then. 

There are set minimum clearances around the flue, which again are normally set out in the manufacturer's installation booklet. Those haven't changed in the last few years. Perhaps the installer thought they would just get away with it. Sounds like it doesn't extend far enough above the roof, or too close to a corner.

Post some photos of the flue showing the context around it.

My boiler doesn't have a dedicated isolation switch, it is on a plug plugged into a socket ( obviously this is also an isolation switch ! ) 

I'm not sure if a socket switch is isolating (at least two-pole). Most likely, not.

You can't get anymore isolated than taking the plug out  

I agree and our installer said this 'risk' was a load of old nonsense.   I might add that the installer is WHICH recommended and the owner is well respected in the industry.

Simonon77

H

You can't get anymore isolated than taking the plug out  

I agree and our installer said this 'risk' was a load of old nonsense.   I might add that the installer is WHICH recommended and the owner is well respected in the industry.

I would ignore it to be honest. If they refuse to honour a warranty based on how it was installed by a recommended installer and say it is because it doesn't have an isolation switch instead of being able to be isolated by unplugging, I think they would have a hard time making that stick.

ThisIsWeird

You still need it annually serviced, tho', to maintain the warranty?

Any other 'authorised' WB GasSafes in the 'hood?

ThisIsWeird

jefaz07 said:

Mains supply to the boiler must be through a fused double pole isolator situated next to the appliance. The isolator must have a contact separation of 3mm minimum in all poles.

Does that actually preclude it from being a fused plugtop in an unswitched socket? Curious, as I don't know.

I'm pretty sure it used to be acceptable, although not very sophisticated.

jefaz07

HUMBUG said:

jefaz07 said:

Mains supply to the boiler must be through a fused double pole isolator situated next to the appliance. The isolator must have a contact separation of 3mm minimum in all poles.

This is an extract from a WB manual. The above is not a plug in a flex…their manual says ‘you must’…you haven’t! So they can cancel warranty as it’s not fitted to MI’s

As for the flue, without seeing it I’m guessing but may be in different pressure zones. 

Many thanks but why is it our fault when we used their recommended engineers? The heating engineer company recommended a WB boiler and they were one of their listed installers who will have to service the boiler every year for the next 10 yrs to keep the guarantee valid . For the last 3 years they have serviced the boiler and not said anything about the install being a threat to life and property. 

Not your fault but the WB engineer is correct, and he is the last one there. Anyone can service your boiler too, not a WB accredited installer..which doesn’t mean much I’m afraid. I’m accredited to install a few brands, and honestly, doesn’t mean a lot. Anyone can go to a days course but their workmanship poor. 

As for the flue, it’s in 2 different pressure zones, that’s why, quite correctly, it has been classified as AR

jefaz07

HUMBUG said:

Many thanks for your comments and I have attached some photos of the flue.

I am still awaiting a response from them regarding the isolation switch requirements but I still don't understand how the boiler power supply being plugged in an extension lead can pose a risk to Life or Property.

Here is a piece from TB016….this describes your situation! Read from the bold text. This was a 2017 bulletin. Hope this helps direct your annoyance (it’s not WB)

HUMBUG

Here is the reply from WB  (they sent me some technical documents which I will scan and add into a future post)

The boiler is installed in a  'dining room/passageway' and because we have doors at each end (which can be closed but in reality are left open all the time), they have assumed it will affect the free flow of air into the intake and affect boiler combustion. So that is why they raised an 'AT RISK'  warning.

So I would check your own installations to see if they comply otherwise you might end up with a deactivated guarantee.


-------------------------------------------

Thank you for your enquiry on behalf of your father.

The terms of the boiler guarantee stipulate that the boiler must be installed to manufacturers instructions to be valid. Any issued highlighted by an attending Gas Safe engineer that potentially pose a safety risk are required to be highlighted using the Gas Industry Unsafe Situations procedure (GIUSP) one of the categories being At Risk. Further information can be found on the Gas Safe website.

With regards the specific attended job the At Risk notice has been issued based on the electrical isolation which we cannot see any pictures but has to adhere to current wiring regulations for fixed appliances to avoid the risk of electric shock, there would also appear to a mention of no bonding which comes under the same category.

If the flue has been deemed at risk due to being enclosed then it would be due to the lack of free flow of air to the air intake which may affect boiler combustion. We cannot see the complete area but would appear to come under the category for installation of a covered passageway.

We have enclosed Technical bulletins that cover both of these issues.

We would recommend if the installer is in disagreement with the installation issues that they provide details as to why.

Regards,

Technical Support

Worcester, Bosch Group

----------------------------------------------

ThisIsWeird

Ah, so the flue's air inlet is inside an enclosed room.

I guess it should be possible to extend it upwards as the full concentric flue, until it's through the roof?

But I'd try another GS first...

HUMBUG

jefaz07 said:

HUMBUG said:

jefaz07 said:

Mains supply to the boiler must be through a fused double pole isolator situated next to the appliance. The isolator must have a contact separation of 3mm minimum in all poles.

This is an extract from a WB manual. The above is not a plug in a flex…their manual says ‘you must’…you haven’t! So they can cancel warranty as it’s not fitted to MI’s

As for the flue, without seeing it I’m guessing but may be in different pressure zones. 

Many thanks but why is it our fault when we used their recommended engineers? The heating engineer company recommended a WB boiler and they were one of their listed installers who will have to service the boiler every year for the next 10 yrs to keep the guarantee valid . For the last 3 years they have serviced the boiler and not said anything about the install being a threat to life and property. 

Not your fault but the WB engineer is correct, and he is the last one there. Anyone can service your boiler too, not a WB accredited installer..which doesn’t mean much I’m afraid. I’m accredited to install a few brands, and honestly, doesn’t mean a lot. Anyone can go to a days course but their workmanship poor. 

As for the flue, it’s in 2 different pressure zones, that’s why, quite correctly, it has been classified as AR

Many thanks but I still don't understand.  The flue is going outside so we have the pressure inside the boiler pushing combustion products through the flue , while on the outside we have atmospheric pressure which I assume is less than inside the boiler. So there must be at least 2 pressure zones for the combustion gases to move (ie. from high to low pressure).

What am I missing?

HUMBUG

I'll make a scan of the technical documents that WB emailed to me and post it later.  Then others will be able to assess their current installation to decide whether remedial works need to be done to ensure their guarantees are not deactivated.