1930s bungalow ceilings - potentially asbestos?

patrick194

We're in the early stages of buying a 1930s bungalow which has unusual ceilings in the sense that they aren't simply flat plaster. They are criss-crossed with battens which probably cover the original joins between the plasterboard panels. It's quite a decorative effect and something I've seen in many properties of the era.

However, I am aware that sometimes asbestos cement boards were joined in this way in 1930s properties. We're not intending to take down the ceilings for any work so it may be that without disturbance, there's no risk but I wondered if anyone else had encountered this and what you'd done if anything?

We haven't had a survey yet but is there any way of telling whether a ceiling is likely asbestos board or plasterboard?

Hopefully the images give a sense of what I'm taking about. They're not of the actual property but are the same style of ceiling.

If anyone has gone on to have ceilings removed - could you give some idea of the cost and process involved.

Bigphil1474

If they do contain asbestos then it would be expensive to remove. As you say, if in good order and you want to keep it, then little issue. You just have to remember not to drill into it, or let anyone else do any invasive work. You might have to presume it is asbestos containing until you know other wise.
We had artex in our living room and main bedroom for the first 17 years we lived here. We did nothing with it except paint over every few years. When we had subsidence 10 years ago, as part of the repairs the insurance company had it tested and found the older layer of artex contained asbestos and they had to remove it all. Cost a lot apparently, had to have both rooms sealed off, airlock built in, workers in full protective clothing and breathing apparatus removing it all, and a welfare unit parked at the front of the house for 3 days. 
Having said that, if the panels can be removed whole, without drilling/breaking up etc. then they may not need to go through the full enclosure malarkey. 

patrick194

Thanks for that - hopefully it's not asbestos. If it is, we could probably look to some sort of price renegotiation. We wouldn't necessarily want to do any work involving the ceilings but if it affected the resale value it's probably worth dealing with now.

Simonon77

patrick194 said:

Thanks for that - hopefully it's not asbestos. If it is, we could probably look to some sort of price renegotiation. We wouldn't necessarily want to do any work involving the ceilings but if it affected the resale value it's probably worth dealing with now.

Artex doesn't effect the resale value of a house. Hundreds of thousands ( probably millions ) of houses in the UK have asbestos in them somewhere. It really is safe as long as not disturbed. In the 70s everything was artexed as it was the new trendy finish

ka7e

My 1930s semi had similar ceilings and they were inspected from underneath the upstairs floorboards. They were literally thick hardboard and had no fire-resistance. We overboarded/plastered everywhere except the kitchen/diner which had to come down as we were combining 2 rooms. There was very little mess compared to taking down a lathe and plaster ceiling. Not sure of the cost as it was included in general renovation quote.

EssexExile

Simonon77 said:

patrick194 said:

Thanks for that - hopefully it's not asbestos. If it is, we could probably look to some sort of price renegotiation. We wouldn't necessarily want to do any work involving the ceilings but if it affected the resale value it's probably worth dealing with now.

Artex doesn't effect the resale value of a house. Hundreds of thousands ( probably millions ) of houses in the UK have asbestos in them somewhere. It really is safe as long as not disturbed. In the 70s everything was artexed as it was the new trendy finish

This isn't about Artex, it's about asbestos cement sheets. We lived in a bungalow many years ago that had asbestos cement sheets for all the walls and ceilings. They were joined using wooden battens as in the picture, until Dad took all the battens off, filled the gaps and sanded it all smooth before painting! If that is asbestos I'd want it gone.

Simonon77

EssexExile said:

Simonon77 said:

patrick194 said:

Thanks for that - hopefully it's not asbestos. If it is, we could probably look to some sort of price renegotiation. We wouldn't necessarily want to do any work involving the ceilings but if it affected the resale value it's probably worth dealing with now.

Artex doesn't effect the resale value of a house. Hundreds of thousands ( probably millions ) of houses in the UK have asbestos in them somewhere. It really is safe as long as not disturbed. In the 70s everything was artexed as it was the new trendy finish

This isn't about Artex, it's about asbestos cement sheets. We lived in a bungalow many years ago that had asbestos cement sheets for all the walls and ceilings. They were joined using wooden battens as in the picture, until Dad took all the battens off, filled the gaps and sanded it all smooth before painting! If that is asbestos I'd want it gone.

Yes I realise that, my comment was that so many houses used artex, which also normally contained asbestos, so lots of houses have asbestos in them somewhere.

The OP may well want it removed and replaced with plasterboard, but it doesn't need doing, so wouldn't be a reason for the seller to reduce the price.

Dustyevsky

patrick194 said:

Thanks for that - hopefully it's not asbestos. If it is, we could probably look to some sort of price renegotiation.

How are you going to know what it is? If you were my buyer, I'd not be sympathetic to your view on this and probably see it as a red flag, so testing wouldn't be taking place. Your expectations re my 30s bungalow, priced accordingly, would be seen as too high.

patrick194

I'm sure the survey will illuminate further.

The point about valuation is, if the ceilings are asbestos - I can't then 'unknow' that and should I choose to sell in the future, I would be obligated to inform any potential buyer who, rightly or wrongly, may consider the property to be worth less.

If a vendor refused a survey or test, I suspect many buyers would draw their own conclusions and act accordingly.

Hopefully, the survey will reveal nothing untoward and that'll be the end of it

Soot2006

patrick194 said:

I'm sure the survey will illuminate further.

The point about valuation is, if the ceilings are asbestos - I can't then 'unknow' that and should I choose to sell in the future, I would be obligated to inform any potential buyer who, rightly or wrongly, may consider the property to be worth less.

If a vendor refused a survey or test, I suspect many buyers would draw their own conclusions and act accordingly.

Hopefully, the survey will reveal nothing untoward and that'll be the end of it

Many vendors genuinely don't know.  Most vendors don't want a piece of their ceiling drilled out to send for testing.

Every survey says "blah blah artex blah blah asbestos maybe blah blah old floor tiles blah blah asbestos maybe"

Dustyevsky

Soot2006 said:

patrick194 said:

I'm sure the survey will illuminate further.

The point about valuation is, if the ceilings are asbestos - I can't then 'unknow' that and should I choose to sell in the future, I would be obligated to inform any potential buyer who, rightly or wrongly, may consider the property to be worth less.

If a vendor refused a survey or test, I suspect many buyers would draw their own conclusions and act accordingly.

Hopefully, the survey will reveal nothing untoward and that'll be the end of it

Many vendors genuinely don't know.  Most vendors don't want a piece of their ceiling drilled out to send for testing.

Every survey says "blah blah artex blah blah asbestos maybe blah blah old floor tiles blah blah asbestos maybe"

Although I said I wouldn't be sympathetic, I was really voicing the thoughts of others, who could think, “It's been OK for me, and for decades before me, so why make this an issue now?”  They might then decide to wait for a less 'demanding' buyer as seen from their POV.

I would know, and I'd price accordingly, if I knew there was something of genuine concern that really needed dealing with. In an old bungalow, there'd likely be a range of other issues too. Everything depends on the condition of the property and the realism of its pricing.

One thing I'm sure of, the surveyor will use words like "appears to be" and similar  phrases, because they cannot know for certain.

If it's very important to you, by all means press for a test, but don't expect the vendor to share your concerns.