Replacing an old Economy 7 heater with a modern one, will I save much on electric bills?

Gerry1

@Scot_39

Unfortunately that switchd site is hopelessly misinformed !  Anyone using it to program a single supply Quantum could waste a lot of money.  The author obviously does not understand the subject.

You don't get more than seven hours on E7, yet periods of eight, eight and a half and even ten and a half hours are wrongly claimed.  The confusion arises because some regions have seven hours between say 10pm and 7am but that's the earliest start and the latest finish, you don't get nine hours.

South Eastern is 10.30pm - 12.30am and 2.30am - 7.30am (as shown correctly on the map) but the times shown in the list are nonsense.

The switchd link is best deleted.

gambleruk

I phoned Eon Next for my economy 7 times in the North West and they assured me they were 12.30am to 7.30am even though I told them I was sure it was 10.30pm-12.30am and 2.30am-7.30am, needless to say I was right and they now say I have a faulty meter if that is the case but cannot change it due to asbestos board and an electech fuse board. So as previously mentioned do your own research and figure out when they switch over bearing in mind they change again when the clocks go back at the end of October.

mmmmikey

Gerry1 said:

@Scot_39

Unfortunately that switchd site is hopelessly misinformed !  Anyone using it to program a single supply Quantum could waste a lot of money.  The author obviously does not understand the subject.

You don't get more than seven hours on E7, yet periods of eight, eight and a half and even ten and a half hours are wrongly claimed.  The confusion arises because some regions have seven hours between say 10pm and 7am but that's the earliest start and the latest finish, you don't get nine hours.

South Eastern is 10.30pm - 12.30am and 2.30am - 7.30am (as shown correctly on the map) but the times shown in the list are nonsense.

The switchd link is best deleted.

Yes, agree with the above. Best thing to do in my view is to check yourself by watching the meter switch over. Where the suppliers are taking readings from 2 registers the times aren't particularly significant to them and there's no guarantee their records will be correct.

Another complication is that I believe the 7 hours don't have to be continuous, you just have to have 7 hours. I'm not sure if that is a legacy thing or actually happens in practice anymore (if it ever did?)

Dandytf

RedFraggle said:

I have a separate E7 circuit as the flat was built like that. Without that I'd have needed to programme for the off peak hours but the quantums are pretty user friendly. 
I work from home, and have arthritis, so can't be cold so 21C it is 🤣
Thought the screenshot was the best way to illustrate and I love that I can monitor usage to avoid any nasty surprises. 
I still have 2 old style NSHs - one in the hallway that I use in winter and one in my bedroom that I can't use as the heat leakage cooks me. 
The Quantums really are a huge improvement on traditional NSHs in my opinion. 
Can't advice on cost savings as I upgraded the living areas to Quantum before moving in but I've been very impressed with them having previously only ever had GCH. 

Excellent info Ive been WFH since pandemic times and I have m.s. so any room filling winter heat is going to be years later than I intended.
I don't want to make this Circuit thing exaggerated, though I think my flat is Single Circuit after initial short Electrician visit last week.
I have old school NSH in hall working great as I replaced Thermostat unit with little fan.
New Quantum should be fun as I'm on SP SVR from early June, costs I suspect are going to be Volatile as I'll want to even try lower Temps to ensure all is well.
21c seems very generous, maybe I'll try later this year.

 

Scot_39

Gerry1 said:

@Scot_39

Unfortunately that switchd site is hopelessly misinformed !  Anyone using it to program a single supply Quantum could waste a lot of money.  The author obviously does not understand the subject.

You don't get more than seven hours on E7, yet periods of eight, eight and a half and even ten and a half hours are wrongly claimed.  The confusion arises because some regions have seven hours between say 10pm and 7am but that's the earliest start and the latest finish, you don't get nine hours.

South Eastern is 10.30pm - 12.30am and 2.30am - 7.30am (as shown correctly on the map) but the times shown in the list are nonsense.

The switchd link is best deleted.

The switched site was just one that came up on a google search that actually included an actual table - have marked potentially suspect in my post - thanks.

I actually favoured dual wiring as safer option in my post - will again edit to make clearer.

The second link in the post to the Scottish Power website is hopefully more accurate - for both whitemeter and E7. But itself states only a guideline for regional E7 (as controlled by regional - is DNO correct ? ) - above another set of regional E7 time guide table. And that includes the 8.5 hrs quoted by @Dandytf for Southern Scotland.  And also 8 hours elsewhere.

They still also table an actual 2 stage / 2 periods E7 for the South East region - and I am sure that has been mentioned by people posting here in past.

South East England  22:30 - 00:30 and 02:30 - 07:30 - thats 2 + 5 adding to 7 - but not 7 continuous.

For an original whitemeter meter it says 8.5 hrs in the 10.5 hour window - 8.5 is not 7 - and I believe that remains true today - as long as it's still being done by a white meter.

It was unclear whether @Dandytf actually still on whitemeter - but billed at E7 - or actually moved to E7 meter and tariff - as he mentions both in his post - or only mentioned E7 because many might not know what whitemeter actually means.

The tariff and the meter configuration - are not one and the same thing - and although most peoples will match - I know people who get / got 10 hours off peak on E7 - whilst on their original E10 metering (until in one of the 2 cases - the supplier upgraded the meter 2 years later to a newer smets2 model).

I guess the best advice - is simply - check your own meter register switching - and check it again at key times - like GMT/DST switches - and any corresponding timer switch or device configuration - as one of my other posts re recent DST change.

Dandytf

I'm going to survive until 23:00 tonight, hope to see 60 mins counter for tariff change@00:00
Though I since appreciate as Scott states my SP WM 1 tariiff, doesn't really guarantee what times my circuit times are. 

Gerry1

Forget the IHD, look at the meter on the wall.  Then make sure one of your fused spurs has a neon indicator.

Using high power items on an E7 tariff at the wrong times can be a very expensive mistake, especially as it's so easy not to notice.

Gerry1

mmmmikey said:

Gerry1 said:

@Scot_39

Unfortunately that switchd site is hopelessly misinformed !  Anyone using it to program a single supply Quantum could waste a lot of money.  The author obviously does not understand the subject.

You don't get more than seven hours on E7, yet periods of eight, eight and a half and even ten and a half hours are wrongly claimed.  The confusion arises because some regions have seven hours between say 10pm and 7am but that's the earliest start and the latest finish, you don't get nine hours.

South Eastern is 10.30pm - 12.30am and 2.30am - 7.30am (as shown correctly on the map) but the times shown in the list are nonsense.

The switchd link is best deleted.

Another complication is that I believe the 7 hours don't have to be continuous, you just have to have 7 hours. I'm not sure if that is a legacy thing or actually happens in practice anymore (if it ever did?)

My South Eastern E7 meter was originally seven contiguous hours.  However, I became aware that a 'split shift' option was available so I had the Radio TeleSwitch reprogrammed to benefit from double-dipping.  Can't remember how I discovered that, it was before the web.

I still have the split shift although now I've chosen to be billed at single rate.

The split shift hours now seem to have become the standard for E7 in this region.

RedFraggle

Stubod said:

RedFraggle said:

I don't think they're difficult at all. They run themselves and adjust themselves. Just don't mess them up by using a secondary heat source in the same room as it fools the temperature monitoring into thinking the weather's warmed up and they won't take sufficient charge for the next day. If you're cold turn them up. 

Ta for the heads up. Could be a problem as our main heating in the livingroom during the evening is a multi fuel burner...although that is normally "out" buy the time the SH come on?? ...and I assume I could programme the timers not to turn the heater on until about 3:00 am??

It'll mess with it's temperature monitoring as the room will be warm without it having had to provide any heat. There is a way to set them up (slave mode) for working alongside a secondary heat source that tweaks the algorithm that calculates how much charge to take. 


 You might be better with a less sophisticated HHR NSH that doesn't monitor. 

It's worth a chat with something really understands them. 

Dandytf

Latest times seem correct as seeing 60 mins timer until 00:00 rate switch.bst.

Hopefully today is DQ Install day!