Sutcliffe Park - Gemini Parking Solutions PCN

KeithP

cesurman said:

Contravention Date: 17/05/2023
Issue Date: 31/05/2023
NTK received: 07/06/2023
Is the timing of the issue, in their favour this time? 

A NtK has to be received within fourteen days of the parking event to be able to transfer any driver's liability to the keeper.

As that NtK was only issued fourteen days after the parking event, there is no possible way that it can be received by the keeper within fourteen days.

cesurman

Coupon-mad said:

On the other Gemini thread, I think last month they were outright refusing to let people appeal unless they said who was driving.

That needs a major complaint to the DVLA.

Same response received from Gemini. Reply or ignore?
To remind a complaint was made to DVLA about Gemini.

We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the above numbered Charge Notice.

Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was

observed. However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver was on the date in questions from the information given within

your appeal.

In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below:

1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename and

Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.

2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that you

are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The

statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS.

Please ensure that correspondence is sent to APCOA Parking, PO Box 815, Wigan, WN1 9WX in order to correctly adhere

with the appeals process.

OR

3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at www.geminiparkingsolutions.com by following the links for "Pay Now" It is

your responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our office by the date specified.

As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above

actions to be complied with.

We are willing to re-offer you the original discounted charge of £60 as full and final settlement of this Notice, if payment is

received within our office on or before the 03/07/2023.

If payment is not received by this date, the amount payable will revert to £100, payable by 17/07/2023. Failure to pay this

charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery action been taken and further costs up to an additional £70.00

been incurred.

Coupon-mad

Forward that email to the DVLA and remind them that David Dunford at the DVLA stepped in ten years ago and told parking firms that they MUST NOT imply that appealing was only for the driver, and the IPC were stopped from having that in their Code of Practice.  Here's the DVLA's email about it:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64401866#Comment_64401866

Show that to them and ask the DVLA if they'd like the good folk on MSE forum to tell the DLUHC that the DVLA appears to have dumbed down its previous position now David Dunford isn't in charge of complaints about the rogue parking industry?  

cesurman

Forwarded the email to them with the DVLA's response in the past.

Btw, DVLA had responded to my query with below (which I responded as above): 

Dear XXXX,

 

Thank you for your email of 7th June about the release of information from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency’s (DVLA) vehicle register. 

The DVLA takes the protection and security of its data very seriously and has procedures in place to ensure data is disclosed only where it is lawful and fair to do so and where the provisions of the Data Protection Law are met. The Agency must strike a balance between ensuring the privacy of motorists is respected while enabling those who may have suffered loss or damage to seek redress.

While seeking to ensure that vehicle keeper data is released only in appropriate circumstances, it is not a matter for the Agency to decide on the merits of individual cases or to arbitrate in any civil disputes between motorists and private car park enforcement companies. The DVLA cannot regulate any aspect of a company’s business. Any representations should be made to the landowner or his agent. The DVLA releases information on the basis that reasonable cause is demonstrated.

To help ensure motorists are treated fairly when any private parking charge is pursued the DVLA discloses vehicle keeper information only to companies that are members of an appropriate Accredited Trade Association (ATA). The purpose of requiring a company to be a member of an ATA is to ensure that those who request DVLA information are legitimate companies that operate within a code of practice that promotes fair treatment of the motorist and ensures that there is a clear set of standards for operators.

The company in question, Gemini Parking Solutions London LTD, is a member of the International Parking Community Ltd (IPC) which is an Accredited Trade Association for the parking industry. The IPC’s code of practice is published on its website at www.theipc.info under the heading Accredited Operators Scheme. If a member of this AOS does not comply with the code of practice, it may be suspended or expelled, during which time no data will be provided to it by the DVLA. If you feel that any of the practices used by the company do not comply with the IPC’s code of practice, you may wish to contact the IPC via their website or by writing to IPC, at PO Box 662 SK10 9NR.

I trust I have explained matters but, if you remain unhappy with the service you have received, you can write to our Complaints Team and I have provided a link to our complaints procedure for your reference:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

Coupon-mad

Send my wording to the Complaints team.

Give them 21 days to respond properly, stop trying to deflect this serious complaint to the (considered by MPs and consumers to be useless) IPC and to drop the DVLA template fob-off rubbish.

I wrote it all above for you to copy, including the bit about David Dunford being more robust in 2013/14 than the DVLA are now, and about the good folk on MSE whispering in the ear of the DLUHC.

Make the DVLA sit up and take notice.

cesurman

DVLA response came in last week:

Dear Mr XXXX

Thank you for your recent emails about the release of information to Gemini Parking

Solutions London Ltd (GPSLL). I have been asked me to reply.

I am sorry you remain unhappy with how your case has been handled. My colleagues have

explained legislation and how it was applied in your case so I will not repeat this

information.

Unfortunately, there will be occasions when we are unable to give a customer what they

would like, or agree with their views and there is nothing I can usefully add to what you

have already been told.

The law allows us to disclose vehicle keeper information to those who can demonstrate a

reasonable cause for requiring it. Reasonable cause is not defined in legislation but the

Government’s policy is that it should relate to the vehicle or its use, following incidents

where there may be liability on the part of the driver. Guidance on what constitutes

reasonable cause is published online at www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla.

Regulation 27 provides a legal gateway for the release of information from the DVLA

vehicle register and this does not require the consent of the data subject. Disclosure in

these circumstances does not breach data protection legislation and the Information

Commissioner’s Office (ICO) is fully aware that data held on our records is released in this

way.

We make people aware of the circumstances in which personal data could be released.

The Vehicle Registration Certificate includes a note that keeper details may be released for

a variety of lawful purposes.

As previously advised GPSLL is a member of an Accredited Trade Associations who have

If you feel that GPSLL have not complied with the International Parking Community’s (IPC)

code of practice, their contact details are IPC, PO Box 431, Knutsford, WA16 1EP.

We cannot regulate private car parking companies and are therefore unable to intervene or

arbitrate in any disputes between two parties.

If you are not satisfied with the way that we have handled your complaint, you should

contact the ICO, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5A.

Yours sincerely

(Removed by Forum Team)

Complaint Handler

DVLA Complaints Team

CFC| D11 | DVLA | Swansea | SA6 7JL

B789

Complain to the ICO about both the DVLA and Gemini. Gemini in particular, are breaching GDPR by requesting personal data they are not entitled to.

1505grandad

"As previously advised GPSLL is a member of an Accredited Trade Associations who have

If you feel that GPSLL have not complied with the International Parking Community’s (IPC).."

Is there a line missing between the above?

Coupon-mad

cesurman said:

DVLA response came in last week:

Dear Mr XXXX

Thank you for your recent emails about the release of information to Gemini Parking

Solutions London Ltd (GPSLL). I have been asked me to reply.

I am sorry you remain unhappy with how your case has been handled. My colleagues have

explained legislation and how it was applied in your case so I will not repeat this

information.

Unfortunately, there will be occasions when we are unable to give a customer what they

would like, or agree with their views and there is nothing I can usefully add to what you

have already been told.

The law allows us to disclose vehicle keeper information to those who can demonstrate a

reasonable cause for requiring it. Reasonable cause is not defined in legislation but the

Government’s policy is that it should relate to the vehicle or its use, following incidents

where there may be liability on the part of the driver. Guidance on what constitutes

reasonable cause is published online at www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla.

Regulation 27 provides a legal gateway for the release of information from the DVLA

vehicle register and this does not require the consent of the data subject. Disclosure in

these circumstances does not breach data protection legislation and the Information

Commissioner’s Office (ICO) is fully aware that data held on our records is released in this

way.

We make people aware of the circumstances in which personal data could be released.

The Vehicle Registration Certificate includes a note that keeper details may be released for

a variety of lawful purposes.

As previously advised GPSLL is a member of an Accredited Trade Associations who have

If you feel that GPSLL have not complied with the International Parking Community’s (IPC)

code of practice, their contact details are IPC, PO Box 431, Knutsford, WA16 1EP.

We cannot regulate private car parking companies and are therefore unable to intervene or

arbitrate in any disputes between two parties.

If you are not satisfied with the way that we have handled your complaint, you should

contact the ICO, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5A.

Yours sincerely

(Removed by Forum Team)

Complaint Handler

DVLA Complaints Team

CFC| D11 | DVLA | Swansea | SA6 7JL

Dear xxxxxxx, 

I am not satisfied at all with this typical DVLA 'BAU' fob off reply, and am not going away.

I want to know what DVLA are going to do about this complaint to resolve it, given the fact that in 2013 the DVLA issued an email jointly with the BPA, telling AOS members that they MUST NOT restrict appeals to drivers only.

The DVLA also stepped in and forced the IPC to change their appeals procedures specifically to allow KEEPERS the right to appeal; the letter from the DVLA's Strategy and Policy Directorate dated 22/5/2014 is reproduced here:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/05/consumer-pressure-forces-change-to-ias.html

DVLA must suspend giving data to Gemini until they have restored the right of keepers to appeal.  This is basic stuff for the DVLA to handle and what you are doing is not lawful, now that you know Gemini are trying this trick.  I expect it to be properly investigated.   This is not 'Business as Usual' and 'nothing to do with DVLA'.

This complaint is required to be escalated to the Data Assurance or your Strategy and Policy Directorate again (as in 2014), if your 'Complaints Team' can no longer handle it.

This complaint is not going to go away because this is in the public domain on MSE forum, where the poster Coupon-mad (a member of the DLUHC Steering Group formulating the new statutory code of practice) is watching and she is ready to involve the DLUHC in this complaint, who will no doubt need some encouraging but will likely tell DVLA what to do about this, just as they have with the Robert Goodwill letter update that DVLA has also passed round like a plate of sandwiches.

I expect a proper, timely response and assurance that DVLA is taking this seriously and will investigate and re-state to Gemini and the IPC, the DVLA's clear position ...which surely has not been watered down...?

yours sincerely

cesurman

B789 said:

Complain to the ICO about both the DVLA and Gemini. Gemini in particular, are breaching GDPR by requesting personal data they are not entitled to.

Complaints have been made to ICO about DVLA and Gemini PS.