Shower tray and enclosure issues

benson1980

Hi all,

Would really appreciate some help and guidance on this one- been a stressful day trying to get this sorted.

Today I started to [try and] install my shower enclosure, which is 900mm by 900mm. There is an inline panel which measures around 270mm, then the door itself is 550mm wide. The glass is 8mm, so these panels are heavy.

Even with the brace in position up top and secured, when I then attach the door and move it to the closed position, the inline panel is forced out of position by the weight of the door. Essentially, the whole thing wants to move diagonally down to the right as you look at it from the shower room door if that makes sense. Thinking about the physics of it, how is a narrow inline panel meant to prevent this movement when the door is twice as heavy and the door is completely unsupported at the bottom. What am I missing 

Furthermore, the shower tray itself and this is where I feel like I'm in between a rock and a hard place to some degree claiming anything against the manufacturers of the enclosure, unless I try and prop it up on a completely level surface and see if it still topples over. I checked, double checked and triple checked the levels across the whole width of the tray. Absolutely fine. However, you check nearer to the corners and the shower tray is slightly bowed downwards in the middle thus as the end where the inline panel is, it is never going to sit correctly. Photos of my mini spirit level and each end- the second photo is where the inline panel wall bracket is. The last photo is the spirit level at the opposite end. Not out by much but I guess it doesn't need to be when I'm dealing with a very narrow panel at that end.

Not sure where to turn with this to be honest, other than get a bathroom fitter in for a second opinion but thought I'd try and see if anyone on here can help with some pointers?

tacpot12

You are right to think of this in terms of the physics. The in-line panel isn't supposed to hold the door up by its weight. Rather it is designed to transfer the forces that the door puts on the hinges to the floor and the wall. So it's all about the strength of the connections.

The brace looks like it is designed to carry the majority of the force at the top of the in-line panel (which will be a tensile force) to the wall. (It's trying to pull the brace and the in-line panel away from the wall at the top and push the panel into the wall at the bottom).   

It looks like the in-line panel will transfer a lot of compressive force down onto the shower tray, and a lot of compressive force onto the wall, but the force on the wall will be much better distributed that it is at the top.  

Is the shower tray designed to be used with that enclosure? 
What is under the shower tray currently? (You need a very solid floor under it and it probably needs to be bonded to the floor as well, otherwise it move. If the shower tray wasn't designed to be used with the enclosure, then I think you need to remove it and get one that it.) 

Is the brace a single solid peice or is it in two peices? If two peices, how are the two connected?
How is the brace connected to the wall? 

How is the in-line panel connected to the trim? (Did it come pre-installed?) 
How is the trim (that the in-line panel is connected to) connected to the wall? 

What is the substrate under the tiles, and how long has the tile adhesive had to set?

benson1980

Thanks. The brace is one piece, which doesn’t connect to the wall in any way and it feels as though this is part of the problem. The brace just pushes against the top of the large side panel which of course has some give in it, in that corner.

To be honest, I didn’t realise that there were different types of shower tray to cater for different types of enclosure. All of this was recommended by a plumbers merchant/bathroom showroom. It’s stone resin. Under the tray are floorboards but I added extra noggins and it all feels pretty solid.

The trim is secured to the wall with screws and plugs. I added battens behind the board to provide extra support. The in-line panel is not secured in any way to that trim. It just slots in.

In hindsight- I wish someone had advised that 8mm glass is too heavy. That side panel is about 40kg. 

CSI_Yorkshire

benson1980 said:

Thanks. The brace is one piece, which doesn’t connect to the wall in any way and it feels as though this is part of the problem. The brace just pushes against the top of the large side panel which of course has some give in it, in that corner.

Surely the brace must go between the small panel of glass and the nearest wall - secured at both ends.  Isn't that the point?

plumb1_2

1- the shower tray must be at least 10mm out of level, should have used a meter long level.
2- Are you sure the brace doesn’t screw to the wall, there might be a grub screw on top that’ll allow the end to come off, then screwed to the wall.
3- Have put the rubber seals into the C channel for the panel, as this will stiffen it up.
4- is it a Roman screen 

benson1980

CSI_Yorkshire said:

benson1980 said:

Thanks. The brace is one piece, which doesn’t connect to the wall in any way and it feels as though this is part of the problem. The brace just pushes against the top of the large side panel which of course has some give in it, in that corner.

Surely the brace must go between the small panel of glass and the nearest wall - secured at both ends.  Isn't that the point?

This is what I don't get. Even the picture in the brochure suggests it is secured against the wall as it goes all of the the way across. But no, the brace is secured via two holes in the inline panel, across to the side panel, and that is it. This allows for outward force on this side panel with nothing to stop it all swaying about particularly with the heavy door attached.

I also had to ask the manufacturer what part of the design stops water escaping from the gap between the inline panel and the door this morning, as there is a 3-4mm gap between them and no inline seal. The instructions indicate that nothing is installed there. They advised that they'd forgotten about this bit and would post one out. From what I can ascertain this is quite a big manufacturer of bathroom products and they forget to include this....I just have no faith in their design for this enclosure.

benson1980

plumb1_2 said:

1- the shower tray must be at least 10mm out of level, should have used a meter long level.
2- Are you sure the brace doesn’t screw to the wall, there might be a grub screw on top that’ll allow the end to come off, then screwed to the wall.
3- Have put the rubber seals into the C channel for the panel, as this will stiffen it up.
4- is it a Roman screen 

Thanks plumb. I have a meter long level. This is what I used. From one edge to the other, it is fine. However across the entire width, the tray bows slightly in the middle hence why I've used my small spirit level to indicate how out of level these bits by the edges are. When laying my meter long level you can see a small gap underneath it around the middle, hence the opposing bubbles if that makes sense. It's not as if the whole length is sloping downward in the same direction.

Definitely nothing in the design of the brace I have that allows it to secure it to the wall, and nothing in the instructions regarding securing any part of it to the wall.

Yes- rubber seals in the channel. This did help but they are just forced out of position by the weight of the door.

I don't believe it is a Roman shower screen.

plumb1_2

Think you should go back to the merchant you bought it from and ask them, everyone I have fitted always has the ability to be screwed to the wall. With a adjustable T section to secure both panels.

The sleeve might be missing.

benson1980

plumb1_2 said:

Think you should go back to the merchant you bought it from and ask them, everyone I have fitted always has the ability to be screwed to the wall. With a adjustable T section to secure both panels.

The sleeve might be missing.

Thanks yes I will do that tomorrow. Here's the end of the brace by the wall. As you can see it ends short of the wall itself so no way to secure it.

CSI_Yorkshire

benson1980 said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

benson1980 said:

Thanks. The brace is one piece, which doesn’t connect to the wall in any way and it feels as though this is part of the problem. The brace just pushes against the top of the large side panel which of course has some give in it, in that corner.

Surely the brace must go between the small panel of glass and the nearest wall - secured at both ends.  Isn't that the point?

This is what I don't get. Even the picture in the brochure suggests it is secured against the wall as it goes all of the the way across. But no, the brace is secured via two holes in the inline panel, across to the side panel, and that is it. This allows for outward force on this side panel with nothing to stop it all swaying about particularly with the heavy door attached.

I also had to ask the manufacturer what part of the design stops water escaping from the gap between the inline panel and the door this morning, as there is a 3-4mm gap between them and no inline seal. The instructions indicate that nothing is installed there. They advised that they'd forgotten about this bit and would post one out. From what I can ascertain this is quite a big manufacturer of bathroom products and they forget to include this....I just have no faith in their design for this enclosure.

I was imagining something more like that sort of brace - but that doesn't sound like what you're describing or photographing.  I think last time I did a bathroom I had to order it as well as the door, it wasn't included in the package.

benson1980

CSI_Yorkshire said:

benson1980 said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

benson1980 said:

Thanks. The brace is one piece, which doesn’t connect to the wall in any way and it feels as though this is part of the problem. The brace just pushes against the top of the large side panel which of course has some give in it, in that corner.

Surely the brace must go between the small panel of glass and the nearest wall - secured at both ends.  Isn't that the point?

This is what I don't get. Even the picture in the brochure suggests it is secured against the wall as it goes all of the the way across. But no, the brace is secured via two holes in the inline panel, across to the side panel, and that is it. This allows for outward force on this side panel with nothing to stop it all swaying about particularly with the heavy door attached.

I also had to ask the manufacturer what part of the design stops water escaping from the gap between the inline panel and the door this morning, as there is a 3-4mm gap between them and no inline seal. The instructions indicate that nothing is installed there. They advised that they'd forgotten about this bit and would post one out. From what I can ascertain this is quite a big manufacturer of bathroom products and they forget to include this....I just have no faith in their design for this enclosure.

I was imagining something more like that sort of brace - but that doesn't sound like what you're describing or photographing.  I think last time I did a bathroom I had to order it as well as the door, it wasn't included in the package.

No it's not that type, if that brace is attached to the wall running parallel?

Incidentally, just re-checking my invoice the tray is actually manufactured by the same company. As mentioned above, placing a long spirit level across the whole span of the edge- perfectly level. Running the mini spirit level across, or actually looking under the longer spirit level when placed across the whole width you can see daylight underneath where it dips and this I would imagine is exasperating the issue.