We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Fathers death and outstanding carers debt from council

My father passed away recently. He had nothing to leave apart from an insurance policy which covered the cost of the funeral with nothing left over.

My father had carers from the local council that he had to pay for. It took a while at the beginning of his care for them to decide how much he would have to pay based on income and other factors. This meant a debt accrued of around £2000. My parents were under the impression they would be entitled to free care due to their low income but this was not the case and the bill shocked them and they were unable to pay. A payment plan was set up where my father would pay a small amount on top of his normal bill every week until the £2000 was paid off. When my father passed away there was still around £1500 unpaid.

The council have asked my mum to pay the debt. The care was solely in my fathers name although my mum lived with him. I know with most debts my mum would not be responsible but with it being the council would that be different? The fact is my mum has very little income as she's disabled and all the money she has goes straight out on bills so would never be able to afford to pay the debt off anyway.

Any advice would be welcome (location is Wales)

«13

Comments

  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 12,197 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    BASILB said:

    My father passed away recently. He had nothing to leave apart from an insurance policy which covered the cost of the funeral with nothing left over.

    My father had carers from the local council that he had to pay for. It took a while at the beginning of his care for them to decide how much he would have to pay based on income and other factors. This meant a debt accrued of around £2000. My parents were under the impression they would be entitled to free care due to their low income but this was not the case and the bill shocked them and they were unable to pay. A payment plan was set up where my father would pay a small amount on top of his normal bill every week until the £2000 was paid off. When my father passed away there was still around £1500 unpaid.

    The council have asked my mum to pay the debt. The care was solely in my fathers name although my mum lived with him. I know with most debts my mum would not be responsible but with it being the council would that be different? The fact is my mum has very little income as she's disabled and all the money she has goes straight out on bills so would never be able to afford to pay the debt off anyway.

    Any advice would be welcome (location is Wales)

    I bet they have, hoping that she'll do so either because she thinks she's liable (she isn't), or because she feels she ought to (she shouldn't).

    Unless the agreement was 'joint and several' (i.e. either your dad or your mum or both signed up for the service/to the repayment plan) it's highly unlikely that she owes anything.

    To set her mind at rest, why not have a word with your local branch of Citizens Advice; or possibly write to the Council asking them to provide documentary evidence that she is responsible for a debt to which she considers she is not a party?
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 34,358 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 30 May 2023 at 11:22PM
    If your father’s income was so low I’d also query the accuracy of the financial assessment. Did they do that at the time?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • BASILB
    BASILB Posts: 29 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Thank you both for your comments.

    My mum said they did do a financial assessment but it took months to do and for them to say that they would have to pay towards the care which is why there was a lot owed. They told my Dad that although his income was low there was a minimum payment and that's what they had to pay. All he received was PIP and ESA.

    At the time they had no choice but to agree as my Dad literally could not move without carers. Prior to the care package being in place I was moving him around with no equipment and hurt myself several times.

    My mum said she has not signed anything and as far as she is aware it was all in my dads name and they only counted his income in the assessment. 

    I will do what you've both suggested and contact citizens advice. We will also ask for the council to provide evidence and also ask for a copy of the assessment they did.
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 6,241 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I think it is worth checking on the assessment that was done at the time - sounds like he shouldn't have been paying  unless they opted to have more input from the care agency than was agreed with the council. 

  • Bougainvillea
    Bougainvillea Posts: 646 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    A complaint could be made to the council because they took so long for a decision, or ask the local councillor to help. Not sure  about Wales but in England, home care is rarely free and benefits such as PIP count in the financial assessment. However, if in addition to personal care, nursing or medical care is needed at home, this should be provided by the NHS and should be free. 
    So sorry and hope you find a solution. 
  • msb1234
    msb1234 Posts: 554 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I wouldnt honestly wouldn’t worry too much about this. The Finance dept have sent out the invoice as a matter of routine. Someone, not necessarily your mum, needs to phone them up, tell them there is no more money left in your father’s estate and therefore the bill cannot be paid. They may require proof, such as a copy of the bank statement showing the nil balance after the funeral was paid. However, that being said, if there WAS money left in his bank after paying the funeral expenses, then it should have been used to pay his debts as far as possible before anything else. 
    I’m assuming she is claiming all benefits due to her? 
  • msb1234
    msb1234 Posts: 554 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    A complaint could be made to the council because they took so long for a decision, or ask the local councillor to help. Not sure  about Wales but in England, home care is rarely free and benefits such as PIP count in the financial assessment. However, if in addition to personal care, nursing or medical care is needed at home, this should be provided by the NHS and should be free. 
    So sorry and hope you find a solution. 
    Sadly, CHC funding - which is what you’re talking about - is almost impossible to claim!
  • BASILB
    BASILB Posts: 29 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Thank you for all for your comments and information.

    Just to answer a few of the points made,

    The care package was not for any medical care.it was simply to get my dad up,washed etc and put to bed in the night. He had nurses that came out from his surgery to treat his wounds but that was not part of the care package. 

    I m not sure it was just a routine letter as it was a phone call from the carers manager where my mum was told they expect the money. She has had nothing in writing.

    My dad's bank account was a joint account with his wife. Would this confuse things? My mum contacted the bank straight away and the account is now solely in her name.the only money my dad had going in was his benefits which paid the bills.DWP were also contacted straight away and there would have been none of his money left over after bulls were paid as normal.

    I believe my mum is claiming all she can but I would welcome any advice if there is anything she could be claiming that she s not. She already had pip. She is now claiming a bereavement fund which was a lump sum payment then £100 a month.the lump sum payment covered the funeral as the insurance my dad had was not enough. She has applied for universal credit and ESA through that as well but she s waiting on all that.At the moments she s only able to get by from borrowing from family.
  • KxMx
    KxMx Posts: 10,693 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 31 May 2023 at 12:28PM
    You could sit down with her and use 1-2 of the benefits calculators , to see if there is anything else, or ask CAB/local welfare rights to go through things with her.

    https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 34,358 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    BASILB said:
    Thank you for all for your comments and information.

    Just to answer a few of the points made,

    The care package was not for any medical care.it was simply to get my dad up,washed etc and put to bed in the night. He had nurses that came out from his surgery to treat his wounds but that was not part of the care package. 

    I m not sure it was just a routine letter as it was a phone call from the carers manager where my mum was told they expect the money. She has had nothing in writing.

    My dad's bank account was a joint account with his wife. Would this confuse things? My mum contacted the bank straight away and the account is now solely in her name.the only money my dad had going in was his benefits which paid the bills.DWP were also contacted straight away and there would have been none of his money left over after bulls were paid as normal.

    I believe my mum is claiming all she can but I would welcome any advice if there is anything she could be claiming that she s not. She already had pip. She is now claiming a bereavement fund which was a lump sum payment then £100 a month.the lump sum payment covered the funeral as the insurance my dad had was not enough. She has applied for universal credit and ESA through that as well but she s waiting on all that.At the moments she s only able to get by from borrowing from family.
    I would expect any request for money to be put in writing with a breakdown, explaining what is owed, by whom and why.
    in the meantime, as someone else said earlier, she could just write to them and say there was nothing left after the funeral, and his estate is insolvent. And ask for all future communications to be in writing. 
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 346.6K Banking & Borrowing
  • 251.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 451.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 238.7K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 614.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 174.7K Life & Family
  • 251.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.