We Need to Change your Meter

[Deleted User]

put a 1 kw electric fire on for 1 hour, meter reading , 1.01 Kws used, accurate enough for me.
doubt the new digital meters or smart meters are that accurate.

I am sure that the Office for Product Safety and Standards will welcome the fact that you have found an objective way of accurately checking your meter for accuracy.  How do you know that your 1kW fire accurately uses 1kWh each hour? The fire may only be drawing 900W. I have yet to see any home appliance with an independent calibration label. Clearly, OPSS and its predecessors have wasted £Ms over the years in certifying and checking in use meters for accuracy.

Smart meters are NO different from the meters that you have already. They measure electricity and gas use in the same way as the old analogue meters.

[Deleted User]

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Gerry1 said:

spireman said:

2. What are the disadvantages for customers with Smart meters?   Can they be cut off remotely on a whim?  Can they be manipulated by the energy company to increase charges?   How can the customer monitor usage against the billed usage?

Cut off ? Yes. You can be cut off remotely.  Not on a whim, but as a last resort if there's a serious energy shortage and rationing hasn't worked well enough.  Known as Load Shedding. 

Well that's just wrong.  Or at the absolute best it's massively misleading.

Load shedding exists, as was highly publicised this past winter, and has nothing at all to do with smart meters.  It's all done at the local substation level and has been for decades.

Adding a smart meter does not increase or decrease the chance, frequency or duration of load shedding affecting any individual.

edit: Oh, and joesoap1264 - anecdotes are not evidence.  And applying legislation (as has been pointed out to you on each of the threads) is not a scare tactic.

To put the disconnection switch into a more practical user context. In a number of European countries, suppliers offer demand-limited tariffs. The consumer agrees to a maximum power limit in kW (or kVA). The lower the power limit the cheaper the tariff. That is, a tariff that limits the user to say 5kW would be cheaper than one with a 10kW limit.

The supplier monitors how much power is being used. If the power limit is exceeded the consumer receives messages via text; the IHD etc advising him/her to turn something off. If there is no response from the consumer, the supplier will disconnect power from the home. There is a dedicated phone line to get power restored. Frequent breaches of contract will result in the consumer being moved to a more expensive tariff. This is an example of a French power-limited tariff:

The French now fine consumers who refuse to have a smart meter. The amount of the fine is to be reviewed each year.

CSI_Yorkshire

And for some context on the table that Dolor provided - you can almost (in a domestic context) treat kVA as kW.

A 'normal' connection in the UK is either 60A, 80A or 100A, depending on how new the property is.

That means the 'normal' kVA capacity of a domestic connection in the UK is between 14 and 23 kVA - with our annual standard charge of about 225 Euro.

[Electrical engineers will recognise some inaccurate assumptions here, but I think it's still relevant enough]

And even in the French case, the customer is choosing which capacity to have, with a corresponding benefit to them (either more power or lower price) - it's not "the man will decide what you can use".

joesoap1264

[Deleted User] said:

put a 1 kw electric fire on for 1 hour, meter reading , 1.01 Kws used, accurate enough for me.
doubt the new digital meters or smart meters are that accurate.

I am sure that the Office for Product Safety and Standards will welcome the fact that you have found an objective way of accurately checking your meter for accuracy.  How do you know that your 1kW fire accurately uses 1kWh each hour? The fire may only be drawing 900W. I have yet to see any home appliance with an independent calibration label. Clearly, OPSS and its predecessors have wasted £Ms over the years in certifying and checking in use meters for accuracy.

Smart meters are NO different from the meters that you have already. They measure electricity and gas use in the same way as the old analogue meters.

If it’s only drawing 900w, then the company are in profit off me.
I said I was happy with 1.1kw.
1.5kw would be different..
one can only use what ones got to get an idea if somethings near enough, not spot on.
are you saying that all new smart meters are exactly calibrated new, no mistakes, no +/- on any of them? No tolerance.
VW .et.al weren’t happy when they got hammered for their stated calibration of fuel use .
there no exact sciences.

CSI_Yorkshire

joesoap1264 said:

[Deleted User] said:

put a 1 kw electric fire on for 1 hour, meter reading , 1.01 Kws used, accurate enough for me.
doubt the new digital meters or smart meters are that accurate.

I am sure that the Office for Product Safety and Standards will welcome the fact that you have found an objective way of accurately checking your meter for accuracy.  How do you know that your 1kW fire accurately uses 1kWh each hour? The fire may only be drawing 900W. I have yet to see any home appliance with an independent calibration label. Clearly, OPSS and its predecessors have wasted £Ms over the years in certifying and checking in use meters for accuracy.

Smart meters are NO different from the meters that you have already. They measure electricity and gas use in the same way as the old analogue meters.

If it’s only drawing 900w, then the company are in profit off me.
I said I was happy with 1.1kw.
1.5kw would be different..
one can only use what ones got to get an idea if somethings near enough, not spot on.
are you saying that all new smart meters are exactly calibrated new, no mistakes, no +/- on any of them? No tolerance.
VW .et.al weren’t happy when they got hammered for their stated calibration of fuel use .
there no exact sciences.

The tolerance is +2.5% to -3.5%.  Exactly the same as it is on old meters.

Why would you doubt that we can measure things more accurately than 30+ years ago though?  That seems like a very strange understanding of technology.

[Deleted User]

joesoap1264 said:

Dolor said:

put a 1 kw electric fire on for 1 hour, meter reading , 1.01 Kws used, accurate enough for me.
doubt the new digital meters or smart meters are that accurate.

I am sure that the Office for Product Safety and Standards will welcome the fact that you have found an objective way of accurately checking your meter for accuracy.  How do you know that your 1kW fire accurately uses 1kWh each hour? The fire may only be drawing 900W. I have yet to see any home appliance with an independent calibration label. Clearly, OPSS and its predecessors have wasted £Ms over the years in certifying and checking in use meters for accuracy.

Smart meters are NO different from the meters that you have already. They measure electricity and gas use in the same way as the old analogue meters.

If it’s only drawing 900w, then the company are in profit off me.
I said I was happy with 1.1kw.
1.5kw would be different..
one can only use what ones got to get an idea if somethings near enough, not spot on.
are you saying that all new smart meters are exactly calibrated new, no mistakes, no +/- on any of them? No tolerance.
VW .et.al weren’t happy when they got hammered for their stated calibration of fuel use .
there no exact sciences.

What has VW got to do with calibrated/certified energy meters? There is no Machiavellian plot going on here.

It is now Government policy to fit smart meters. If you recall, some years ago, the Government decided to move from coal to natural gas and it had a programme of changing all the burners in gas appliances. Consumers did not get a choice other than refusal would result in a capped supply. At the moment, unless your meter is deemed to be end-of-life you do get a say. As the demand for smart meters is now outstripping supply there is no reason for Government to change this policy. However, in my opinion, it is only a question of time before they become mandatory. 

As a consumer, you do not get a vote on whether your end-of-life meter should be changed or not. Suppliers are not going to take any notice of your accuracy test. Indeed, I think that we would all be content if you just ignored the email and did absolutely nothing. The supplier's system will then do what it is required to do to effect a meter change.

joesoap1264

[Deleted User] said:

joesoap1264 said:

Dolor said:

put a 1 kw electric fire on for 1 hour, meter reading , 1.01 Kws used, accurate enough for me.
doubt the new digital meters or smart meters are that accurate.

I am sure that the Office for Product Safety and Standards will welcome the fact that you have found an objective way of accurately checking your meter for accuracy.  How do you know that your 1kW fire accurately uses 1kWh each hour? The fire may only be drawing 900W. I have yet to see any home appliance with an independent calibration label. Clearly, OPSS and its predecessors have wasted £Ms over the years in certifying and checking in use meters for accuracy.

Smart meters are NO different from the meters that you have already. They measure electricity and gas use in the same way as the old analogue meters.

If it’s only drawing 900w, then the company are in profit off me.
I said I was happy with 1.1kw.
1.5kw would be different..
one can only use what ones got to get an idea if somethings near enough, not spot on.
are you saying that all new smart meters are exactly calibrated new, no mistakes, no +/- on any of them? No tolerance.
VW .et.al weren’t happy when they got hammered for their stated calibration of fuel use .
there no exact sciences.

What has VW got to do with calibrated/certified energy meters? There is no Machiavellian plot going on here.

It is now Government policy to fit smart meters. If you recall, some years ago, the Government decided to move from coal to natural gas and it had a programme of changing all the burners in gas appliances. Consumers did not get a choice other than refusal would result in a capped supply. At the moment, unless your meter is deemed to be end-of-life you do get a say. As the demand for smart meters is now outstripping supply there is no reason for Government to change this policy. However, in my opinion, it is only a question of time before they become mandatory. 

As a consumer, you do not get a vote on whether your end-of-life meter should be changed or not. Suppliers are not going to take any notice of your accuracy test. Indeed, I think that we would all be content if you just ignored the email and did absolutely nothing. The supplier's system will then do what it is required to do to effect a meter change.

Thanks Dolor that,s exactly what I am doing.
The same is going to happen 2035 when the Gov haven’t attained the same with a targets with air source heat pumps, and ban gas boilers!
kowtowing to target zero, still energy,.
without a joined up energy policy, we are going to be in snook.
vanity projects with no possibility of carrying them out .
that’s is guaranteed.
👍

wild666

Smart meters read the electric in kWh but the gas is still in M3, this means every one unit on the gas is roughly 11.3 kWh.
If they want everyone to get smart meters they should be targeting the oldest meters first, those reading in ft.3 as some suppliers will give energy bills based on readings of M3 rather than ft.3 meaning that the person could be hit with a bill nearly three times their actual bills read as M3 rather than what they should be, that is ft.3.

Once the users knows how a smart meter works, electric usage 1 unit to 1kWh and gas 1 unit to 11.3kWh then they shouldn't have a problem. If the supplier doesn't allow the user to put in their own readings then it can get tricky if the meters are not connecting to send readings as the supplier will estimate the usage which could see estimated usage figures far higher than the actual bill.
The only downside I can see with smart meters is that the supplier could switch the user too prepayment options if they get into difficulty with paying a DD.

Krakkkers

I have also got one of those letters saying they need to change my meter but i have solar panels and self consume most of my generation, would they start measuring my export instead of getting the assumed 50% ??
I am not with they same companies for supply and FIT if that makes a difference.

[Deleted User]

Krakkkers said:

I have also got one of those letters saying they need to change my meter but i have solar panels and self consume most of my generation, would they start measuring my export instead of getting the assumed 50% ??
I am not with they same companies for supply and FIT if that makes a difference.

Possibly, but that is allowed under the FIT contract that you signed. The SoS can also decide to change the deemed percentage. FIT contracts are separate from supply contracts.



FWiW, I don’t get the benefit of FIT payments for my array so I get paid SEG for all the units exported as recorded by my smart meter. Last month, I received £139.50 in export payments. It follows that you might be better foregoing deemed exports in favour of actual export payments under SEG. You would still retain the generation payments.