Pay Pal Dispute

tightauldgit

soolin said:

I have found someone who has paid for something on ebay using paypal, and they say it shows as going to ebay commerce not direct to a seller. If there is anyone else that can confirm this is the case (my last few months of purchases have all gone via credit card) then it looks like the paypal chargeback route might no longer be viable. 

If ebay now take the payment making them the payee that means a 2nd bite at the cherry of getting refunds has gone. OP this might be something for the ebay community boards as if what I am seeing is right, this is a big change and I can't imagine you are the first to have been caught out.

I just checked and I don't have any PayPal payments to eBay recently to confirm but I imagine they must be the payee now as you don't receive any direct PayPal payments either anymore it all goes through eBay's system doesn't it?

How that impacts on PayPal protection and also eBay's status as 'we are just an intermediary madam don't blame us for anything ' im not clear

KIWI56

 

soolin said:

KIWI56 said:

Hi I now have another problem.  As Ebay have rejected it for some reason my parcel has been taken by UPS back to Parcel Monkeys address in Portsmouth.  They are now saying I have to pay £83 to get the parcel returned to me or they will dispose of it.  Paypal are saying it will take a while to see what happens.  I now have to pay the £80 to get it back I am up in arms here.I have told parcel Monkey (who hire UPS that it should have been returned to sender myself) not to themselves.  Paypal know that I should have the money its just Ebay are messing around.  I have sent proof of rejection and proof that the item isnt damaged.  I am at a loss now incurring another £80 to get it back.  I dont know where to start.  I have called Paypal they say they have to wait until they hear from Ebay

Can you clarify please what your original payment going out of paypal showed as payee?

Hi it showed Ebay Commerce UK Ltd

KIWI56

Also I am really annoyed about the postage as I paid for the delivery to Ebay, They sent an incorrect non existent address, the parcel was then sent on to Ebay in London and they rejected it. (no damage confirmed by the courtier).  I organised the delivery through Parcel MONKEY.  The parcel was supposed to be returned to sender (which was me).  It has been sent back to Parcel Monkey in Gosport who are now asking me for an extortionate £105 to send back to me or they will dispose of it.  My argument is it should have been returned to me but they say thats how it is.  I am really at a loss

tightauldgit

I'm really confused as to why you returned the item to eBay. They aren't the people who sold you the item. 

And that's why it's being rejected, you're trying to send a huge bloody awning to what is at best an office with a few folk on computers and possibly even just a brass plate in an office block.

soolin

tightauldgit said:

I'm really confused as to why you returned the item to eBay. They aren't the people who sold you the item. 

And that's why it's being rejected, you're trying to send a huge bloody awning to what is at best an office with a few folk on computers and possibly even just a brass plate in an office block.

That's what is worrying me about the new managed payment system. If you read the thread the claim was made via paypal so the rules are those of paypal not ebay. Paypal require the item to be returned to the address given by them, they have no link with the original seller, OP didn't pay the seller they paid ebay so paypal are claiming off ebay. If OP had just found an address for the seller and returned to them paypal still probably wouldn't have paid out as they can't claw the money back from anyone but ebay. The OP did what they thought was right, where else could they have returned it?

This needs to be clarified , if the paypal chargeback route has closed then it should be publicised and any forums like this need to understand the new restrictions and what they mean to buyers who miss out on doing an ebay claim. 

I've had a quick look and hope to have a better look later, but I can't find any real threads anywhere about chargebacks via paypal when managed payments was used.

I still think though that paypal need to be approached on the basis that a return was made on their instructions and to an address supplied by them, and with proof that was done, it should be enough to get a refund. This needs to be done by phone and lots and lots of perseverance and rather urgently. 

KIWI56

Thank you Soolin.  Yes the package was sent exactly to where PayPal told me.  The original address was a small drive for us and I offered to take it there but Paypal said no I needed a courier signature that it had been delivered.  That address was actually West Midlands Safari Park not Ebay Commerce I had checked out the postcode, and I asked them several times was the address correct and they told me at least twice that it was, so of course when they try to deliver to Ebay Commerce they cant find it.  Then I have to show that ticket to Paypal and they then gave me the London address which was refused.  I can only do what they say.  Ups then had a messgae from Parcel Monkey to return to sender so they sent back to Parcel Monkey in Gosport.  I questioned it during the delivery process and now as its now at parcel Monkey HQ they say i have to pay £105 to get it back to deliver to me.  I am at a loss now and waiting for Paypal to get back today.  However I will have spent near enough £200 (if I have to get it returned to me) for a none existent journey which I probably cant claim back.  They are revising it today but my worry is that this will carry on and I still have to get the awning back and pay the P&P.  I am so fed up of calls and the chat lines as no one seems to know whats going on.

soolin

Phone paypal and keep phoning them, make sure you have copies of all the emails and information from paypal . Explain to them that you complied with the seller protection requirements and that you are due a refund and will make the item available for collection if ebay or the seller want it back. 

Keep your conversation simple and concise, don't go down any convoluted paths, just keep saying the same thing and see if they can put you through to someone more suitable. Have all your info to hand in a form that will allow it to be uploaded, I once had a dispute and paypal wanted to see proof of attempted delivery (it was years ago) and I had everything on my PC and could send it straight to the email paypal gave me. 

tightauldgit

soolin said:

tightauldgit said:

I'm really confused as to why you returned the item to eBay. They aren't the people who sold you the item. 

And that's why it's being rejected, you're trying to send a huge bloody awning to what is at best an office with a few folk on computers and possibly even just a brass plate in an office block.

That's what is worrying me about the new managed payment system. If you read the thread the claim was made via paypal so the rules are those of paypal not ebay. Paypal require the item to be returned to the address given by them, they have no link with the original seller, OP didn't pay the seller they paid ebay so paypal are claiming off ebay. If OP had just found an address for the seller and returned to them paypal still probably wouldn't have paid out as they can't claw the money back from anyone but ebay. The OP did what they thought was right, where else could they have returned it?

This needs to be clarified , if the paypal chargeback route has closed then it should be publicised and any forums like this need to understand the new restrictions and what they mean to buyers who miss out on doing an ebay claim. 

I've had a quick look and hope to have a better look later, but I can't find any real threads anywhere about chargebacks via paypal when managed payments was used.

I still think though that paypal need to be approached on the basis that a return was made on their instructions and to an address supplied by them, and with proof that was done, it should be enough to get a refund. This needs to be done by phone and lots and lots of perseverance and rather urgently. 

No, I understand that part of the concern - and I can see why it's happened at each step but someone somewhere needs to be clever enough to know that sending it to Ebay isn't going to help because they didn't sell the item to the OP. It's akin to trying to return your faulty car to the bank because they provided the finance. And all it's done is incur costs for the OP. Hopefully those costs might be recoverable from Paypal who've advised the OP badly, but I guess they would fight that. 

Seems like a chat with Ebay and asking for their advice may be better. Or indeed dealing with the seller directly as even though they aren't covered by Ebay's 30 days they are still protected by consumer rights. 

I agree with you that Ebay definitely need to clarify the process and policy now. One thing is for sure though, Ebay's office staff aren't going to start accepting huge numbers of return items.

KIWI56

tightauldgit said:

soolin said:

tightauldgit said:

I'm really confused as to why you returned the item to eBay. They aren't the people who sold you the item. 

And that's why it's being rejected, you're trying to send a huge bloody awning to what is at best an office with a few folk on computers and possibly even just a brass plate in an office block.

That's what is worrying me about the new managed payment system. If you read the thread the claim was made via paypal so the rules are those of paypal not ebay. Paypal require the item to be returned to the address given by them, they have no link with the original seller, OP didn't pay the seller they paid ebay so paypal are claiming off ebay. If OP had just found an address for the seller and returned to them paypal still probably wouldn't have paid out as they can't claw the money back from anyone but ebay. The OP did what they thought was right, where else could they have returned it?

This needs to be clarified , if the paypal chargeback route has closed then it should be publicised and any forums like this need to understand the new restrictions and what they mean to buyers who miss out on doing an ebay claim. 

I've had a quick look and hope to have a better look later, but I can't find any real threads anywhere about chargebacks via paypal when managed payments was used.

I still think though that paypal need to be approached on the basis that a return was made on their instructions and to an address supplied by them, and with proof that was done, it should be enough to get a refund. This needs to be done by phone and lots and lots of perseverance and rather urgently. 

No, I understand that part of the concern - and I can see why it's happened at each step but someone somewhere needs to be clever enough to know that sending it to Ebay isn't going to help because they didn't sell the item to the OP. It's akin to trying to return your faulty car to the bank because they provided the finance. And all it's done is incur costs for the OP. Hopefully those costs might be recoverable from Paypal who've advised the OP badly, but I guess they would fight that. 

Seems like a chat with Ebay and asking for their advice may be better. Or indeed dealing with the seller directly as even though they aren't covered by Ebay's 30 days they are still protected by consumer rights. 

I agree with you that Ebay definitely need to clarify the process and policy now. One thing is for sure though, Ebay's office staff aren't going to start accepting huge numbers of return items.

Yes I told Paypal that when I had to send it back.  However it gets worse now the parcel company want £105 for me to get it back, they say if I dont pay it they will dispose of it. paypal have now extended the date to 28th they called me last night as I have left a message.  I explained the whole thing over again, then this morning I get a message asking for proof of delivery back to the courier.  So I have sent that now.  I dont know what to do about this parcel.  If I pay £105 I get it back but I dont know the situation with my claim.  Its got ridiculous.  Spoke again this morning and they are "looking into it"  Will wait and see what happens now Im just so frustrated.

jon81uk

You should have realised that you don't need to send the item to eBay, they are just a marketplace connecting you to the seller and the item needed to go back to seller. Sorry if that sounds obvious but you need to consider PayPal know nothing about what you bought, just that you gave money to eBay to give to the seller. They are just an intermediary organising a chargeback for you, same as if you'd used a credit/debit card and asked the bank to arrange a chargeback.

Not idea why the courier wants more money to return to sender but there is often issues with using companies like parcel monkey instead of dealing directly with UPS/DPS/Evri etc.

You need to contact the actual seller of the item. If it is a company then your consumer rights apply and if you returned it to them you should get a refund.