Ripped off of 7k by fraudulent misrepresentation

powerful_Rogue

Manxman_in_exile said:

Would there be any foreseeable downside to the OP contacting the well known store?

Nope, but there would be no upside either. A lot of this seems like clutching at straws.

eskbanker

Manxman_in_exile said:

Would there be any foreseeable downside to the OP contacting the well known store?

"I have a whole load of tech with personal data and your labels on it, that shouldn't have come into my hands and really wouldn't look good if this was visible more publicly"
"Are you trying to blackmail us?"

[Deleted User]

Are we not missing a key piece of the jigsaw here? How were the goods described by the seller and was this in writing? Presumably, no one parts with £7k without some form of written contract between the parties: otherwise, it becomes something of a ‘he said: she said’ case.

[Deleted User]

eskbanker said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Would there be any foreseeable downside to the OP contacting the well known store?

"I have a whole load of tech with personal data and your labels on it, that shouldn't have come into my hands and really wouldn't look good if this was visible more publicly"
"Are you trying to blackmail us?"

Lol I'm not holding them to ransom haha. they can have them for free. There no good to me....

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] said:

Are we not missing a key piece of the jigsaw here? How were the goods described by the seller and was this in writing? Presumably, no one parts with £7k without some form of written contract between the parties: otherwise, it becomes something of a ‘he said: she said’ case.

Yes each item was individually on a spreadsheet. It was described as NO FAULT 14 DAYS RETURNS from a major retailer.

All the exchanges are in black and white through email stating this.

Dataless

MattMattMattUK said:

Deleted_User said:

I have unfortunately paid by bank transfer for £7k for a pallet of electrical goods. I have obviously been deliberately defrauded.

I was told they were 14 day non fault returns 90% boxed. They were 90% smashed to pieces or locked with user accounts on. They were pc tablets. Some have peoples information on but 99% are for the trash. This happened yesterday and I immediately did some research and he guy is named in a newspaper as a well known fraudster. He is also all over the internet with 100's of people naming him with awful tales of deception.

I phoned my bank yesterday but they said contact Action Fraud.

I am seriously unwell atm and should have known better. I'm just looking for some calm advice as i'm feeling very distressed.

It is a company which is on companies house but on further investigation it looks like it's being wound up. He has a history of opening company's and going bankrupt owing hundreds of thousands.

He is a local man, I've been to his office and I'm aware of where he lives(If that's not a con too).

I don't know where to go next:(

Thank you in advance

Your only option is to start a legal claim for the money, so letter before action, followed by court action. There are unlikely to be any consumer rights in this situation as it seems like it was a business transaction. Before commencing the legal action you would also need to look at the terms and conditions of the sale and how they relate to the goods received, does the detailed description of the goods match with what you received once they were delivered, what does it say on the invoice? 

As for the prospect of recovering the funds, if it is a Ltd company and it has no funds the chances are very low, although in theory the Director could be personally liable if he was trading whilst insolvent, it does not make recovering the funds likely. 

On what basis were you buying the goods, sole trader or your own limited company?

People say business transactions are not covered by the Consumer Rights Act (2015) but they ARE covered by the Sale of Goods Act (1978) which remains in force and has more or less the same "fit for purpose" "as described" etc but a companies terms and conditions play more of a part.

You are right about the LTD company being easy to wind up, it would turn on the name on the bank account it was paid into.

Dataless

MattMattMattUK said:

Deleted_User said:

nyermen said:

One extra thing - possibly just clutching at straws - but if the electronics contains private data, doesn't that breach GDPR (known disclosure is criminal isn't it?).  That could make the police more interested?

Thanks, I've threatened him with this as a lot of the tablets are accessible with pictures of people, children, general information, emails etc but are of low value and cracked screens. I have not had a reply sense emailing him with this nightmare.

Remember that you now holding those goods also have a GDPR responsibility, the goods need to be stored securely and you should not allow anyone else access. 

GDPR breaches are not criminal in general, they are unlawful not illegal. 

Re GDPR, Only if he is a business or trader, people buy kit as a hobby of keeping it out of landfill and are quite entitled to sell it without them being a business.

[Deleted User]

Dataless said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Deleted_User said:

I have unfortunately paid by bank transfer for £7k for a pallet of electrical goods. I have obviously been deliberately defrauded.

I was told they were 14 day non fault returns 90% boxed. They were 90% smashed to pieces or locked with user accounts on. They were pc tablets. Some have peoples information on but 99% are for the trash. This happened yesterday and I immediately did some research and he guy is named in a newspaper as a well known fraudster. He is also all over the internet with 100's of people naming him with awful tales of deception.

I phoned my bank yesterday but they said contact Action Fraud.

I am seriously unwell atm and should have known better. I'm just looking for some calm advice as i'm feeling very distressed.

It is a company which is on companies house but on further investigation it looks like it's being wound up. He has a history of opening company's and going bankrupt owing hundreds of thousands.

He is a local man, I've been to his office and I'm aware of where he lives(If that's not a con too).

I don't know where to go next:(

Thank you in advance

Your only option is to start a legal claim for the money, so letter before action, followed by court action. There are unlikely to be any consumer rights in this situation as it seems like it was a business transaction. Before commencing the legal action you would also need to look at the terms and conditions of the sale and how they relate to the goods received, does the detailed description of the goods match with what you received once they were delivered, what does it say on the invoice? 

As for the prospect of recovering the funds, if it is a Ltd company and it has no funds the chances are very low, although in theory the Director could be personally liable if he was trading whilst insolvent, it does not make recovering the funds likely. 

On what basis were you buying the goods, sole trader or your own limited company?

People say business transactions are not covered by the Consumer Rights Act (2015) but they ARE covered by the Sale of Goods Act (1978) which remains in force and has more or less the same "fit for purpose" "as described" etc but a companies terms and conditions play more of a part.

You are right about the LTD company being easy to wind up, it would turn on the name on the bank account it was paid into.

If I gave you this guys name you would be shocked. I obviously can't.

It was paid into his named account. i.e. 'his name'- trading as 'name'. There is no trace of this name on companies hoise.

I presume he is down as a sole trader as the the last company was wound and anything left was 'The Crowns' property. This is on company's house.

Anyway I think court is the only option....

Dataless

Deleted_User said:

nyermen said:

One extra thing - possibly just clutching at straws - but if the electronics contains private data, doesn't that breach GDPR (known disclosure is criminal isn't it?).  That could make the police more interested?

Thanks, I've threatened him with this as a lot of the tablets are accessible with pictures of people, children, general information, emails etc but are of low value and cracked screens. I have not had a reply sense emailing him with this nightmare.

If it were me, I would attempt to identify the people who have accounts, I would use 3rd party tools to crack open their accounts (if you have physical control of a device you are half way there to logging in).

The lawful purpose of doing this would be to contact the person who owned it before and put their data on it in order to tell them you bought this online and are trying to trace how they disposed of it, was it a return, did they bin it or what.

If the former owner says "I took it into XYZ electrical who told me they would properly dispose of it and nuke my data" then you call XYZ and try to determine who they gave or sold it to.  You might find even find it is an employee or be given another company name. 

This achieves two things, first for Court it shows the description was inaccurate, it was not a 14 day return etc.  Second you may get this person blacklisted by XYZ who might be a big PLC with stores on the high street.

You then rinse and repeat for every device.

I would have thought you would have been given a list of kit and been able to verify their value, I would never part with £7k never mind transfer it electronically.

There are videos on YouTube about people who buy Amazon returns by the pallet and about every 3rd one is full of junk.

Even if you do not resolve it you have probably helped a lot of this community from making a similar mistake.

Dataless

Deleted_User said:

soolin said:

Deleted_User said:

Hi thanks.

I don't have a business I was just going to buy these and attempt to start one on ebay etc.

It looks like I have paid him personally. The transaction has his name and a 'T' afterwards.

The details of the goods were 'non fault 14 day returns' with a list of all the items. They are all faulty and cracked screens.

Then as above you will have a fight on your hands as this is a B2B transaction, although I suspect even it was was a consumer purchase this would still be difficult due to your payment method.

Firstly, how much information can you get about the seller? You need to start screen shotting and saving everything you can, you need a full name and geographic address for starters so check out the details you say you have in your OP, see if you can confirm the address at least.

Realistically though having basically sent 7K to a relative stranger who already looks like they have issues with money etc, I wouldn't hold out much hope of seeing all your money back. It's just a shame that you did the research after paying and not before.

Just one thought, and even this is clutching at straws, when you sent the bank transfer did your bank put any warnings on screen about whether you knew the recipient and were happy to go ahead knowing the money couldn't be reclaimed?  All the banks I use make it near impossible to send money without reading all sorts of warnings about potential scams.

I have been to his home briefly, he is all over the internet with unsatisfied customers. I have now received an email stating that 'how dare I accuse him etc' of this. He is now threatening the police.

The Police do not enforce civil matters such as slander, but they do investigate scammers via Action Fraud et al, it has to be said that Action Fraud is nothing more than a useless database where even the most obvious data is not collected.  

What will get Action Fraud to consider getting involved is if you reach out to all of those who have written reviews and get them all to complain in concert, get them to write to their MP asking them to pressure Action Fraud because they are obviously a prolific scammer. You would provide the evidence.