Level 2 Homebuyer Survey Outcome - Electrical issues

silvercar

When we moved into our home over a decade ago, the MCB had fuse wires instead of flippy switches.

We replaced the MCB, but didn't do anything else on the grounds that the previous owners had lived there so would have uncovered anything major. Over the years we have found issues:
1. The garden lighting was connected by running an internal cable from the back of a socket out to the garden. This had degraded over time (buried in places). Our solution was to disconnect that and install solar lights.
2. The downstairs lights aren't earthed. We replaced a couple of metal switches with plastic ones. Other than making a mental note not to touch the lights with wet hands, we have lived with it.
3. Some light switches in cupboards are bakelight switches. We haven't changed these.

tooldle

Ours is 1977 build. Since moving in, we’ve replaced the fuse box (fuse wire) for a consumer unit and installed an isolation switch (electricity supplier did this). We’ve also replaced a couple of light fittings where wiring was clearly degraded and added a couple of extra sockets in the kitchen.  Other than that, the whole system has been tested and passed. 

ProDave

silvercar said:

When we moved into our home over a decade ago, the MCB had fuse wires instead of flippy switches.

We replaced the MCB, but didn't do anything else on the grounds that the previous owners had lived there so would have uncovered anything major. Over the years we have found issues:
1. The garden lighting was connected by running an internal cable from the back of a socket out to the garden. This had degraded over time (buried in places). Our solution was to disconnect that and install solar lights.
2. The downstairs lights aren't earthed. We replaced a couple of metal switches with plastic ones. Other than making a mental note not to touch the lights with wet hands, we have lived with it.
3. Some light switches in cupboards are bakelight switches. We haven't changed these.

This is bad advice.

Whoever fitted a new consumer unit should also have checked and upgraded where necessary.  Often earth bonding is not up to standards and has to be improved for example.  Such a test and inspection would have revealed those issues.

A lighting circuit without an earth can still be used if it is otherwise okay as long as ALL the switches and light fittings are class 2, i.e fittings that do not require an earth.  That usually means not metal fittings or switches, though there are some metal light fittings that are certified by the manufacturer as class 2 so can be used.

In the case of the OP I would be happy to move into the house and then evaluate if you can work around the existing number and position of sockets or if you need to get an electrician to add more.  Make that decision early because adding extra sockets should really be done before you decorate the house nicely.

I have done such upgrades on many older houses and in most cases the wiring is in good order.  The exception being cables that have been overloaded.  For instance it is common to find a 6mm cable now feeding a 10KW shower and in poor condition as a result.

silvercar

ProDave said:

silvercar said:

When we moved into our home over a decade ago, the MCB had fuse wires instead of flippy switches.

We replaced the MCB, but didn't do anything else on the grounds that the previous owners had lived there so would have uncovered anything major. Over the years we have found issues:
1. The garden lighting was connected by running an internal cable from the back of a socket out to the garden. This had degraded over time (buried in places). Our solution was to disconnect that and install solar lights.
2. The downstairs lights aren't earthed. We replaced a couple of metal switches with plastic ones. Other than making a mental note not to touch the lights with wet hands, we have lived with it.
3. Some light switches in cupboards are bakelight switches. We haven't changed these.

This is bad advice.

Whoever fitted a new consumer unit should also have checked and upgraded where necessary.  Often earth bonding is not up to standards and has to be improved for example.  Such a test and inspection would have revealed those issues.

A lighting circuit without an earth can still be used if it is otherwise okay as long as ALL the switches and light fittings are class 2, i.e fittings that do not require an earth.  That usually means not metal fittings or switches, though there are some metal light fittings that are certified by the manufacturer as class 2 so can be used.

In the case of the OP I would be happy to move into the house and then evaluate if you can work around the existing number and position of sockets or if you need to get an electrician to add more.  Make that decision early because adding extra sockets should really be done before you decorate the house nicely.

I have done such upgrades on many older houses and in most cases the wiring is in good order.  The exception being cables that have been overloaded.  For instance it is common to find a 6mm cable now feeding a 10KW shower and in poor condition as a result.

It was the advice given by the qualified electrician who did the MCB replacement.

Noneforit999

ProDave said:

Whoever fitted a new consumer unit should also have checked and upgraded where necessary.  Often earth bonding is not up to standards and has to be improved for example.  Such a test and inspection would have revealed those issues.

A lighting circuit without an earth can still be used if it is otherwise okay as long as ALL the switches and light fittings are class 2, i.e fittings that do not require an earth.  That usually means not metal fittings or switches, though there are some metal light fittings that are certified by the manufacturer as class 2 so can be used.

In the case of the OP I would be happy to move into the house and then evaluate if you can work around the existing number and position of sockets or if you need to get an electrician to add more.  Make that decision early because adding extra sockets should really be done before you decorate the house nicely.

I have done such upgrades on many older houses and in most cases the wiring is in good order.  The exception being cables that have been overloaded.  For instance it is common to find a 6mm cable now feeding a 10KW shower and in poor condition as a result.

Good advice about getting sockets added before you decorate, even if the electrician uses a wall chaser with a hoover attachment, there is still an element of dust and mess too. This is the reason we are putting off a rewire in our 60s house as we have decorated every room. We had the kitchen refurbished last and the electrician started an EICR but the main socket circuit had a spur off a spur off a spur so combined with the actual consumer unit having multiple issues visually, he said its not worth carrying on and simply rewired the whole kitchen to a new CU in the garage.

I just can't stomach having a rewire done while we are living there. Having to move everything around, the mess of dust everywhere, the carpets which need pulling back and re-stretching, the T&G floorboards which are going to break to pieces and need to be replaced. The current install works fine and has done for 60 years, there is nothing we are using in the house which is going to overload anything so we will live with it.

The shower thing is fairly common as you say, originally it probably had a 7Kw shower on a 6mm cable and people generally go for 9-10Kw these days. Its likely fine in 99% of cases as you are only in the shower 10 minutes or so and its likely not drawing the 9-10Kw for an extended time anyway but something to consider. 

CindyT

Gavin83 said:

It depends what they mean by disrepair. Did they clarify? There’s certainly nothing wrong with it being dated nor having not had a previous inspection. 

I've got a call booked with the surveyor this afternoon to talk over the report, so I'll aim to clarify then.

badger09

CindyT said:

Gavin83 said:

It depends what they mean by disrepair. Did they clarify? There’s certainly nothing wrong with it being dated nor having not had a previous inspection. 

I've got a call booked with the surveyor this afternoon to talk over the report, so I'll aim to clarify then.

Good plan. We’ve found a chat with our surveyor invaluable, as did a family member. 

There is nothing really scary in that extract but as an FTB, I think having an EICR done is well worth the £200 - £300 (ballpark?) cost. It will obviously highlight anything dangerous but also give you a list of things to consider doing over time. With a house that age I can pretty much guarantee you’ll need extra sockets😉
Good luck 

[Deleted User]

CindyT said:

user1977 said:

You don't need to get the electrics checked out - it's up to you, and I wouldn't bother unless I had particular concerns about something. Really all the surveyor is doing there is saying they're not an expert and aren't making further comment on the state of the electrics. And they will be saying that in every single survey they do. I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to be paying for any such checks.

Thanks for your feedback. I think the fact it says "The electrical installation is dated and in disrepair" and "The number of socket outlets are  inadequate for modern requirements  and  there is a risk of overloading the few sockets that are present" has concerned us.

I assumed we'd have to pay for any test, just wanted to see if anyone else had done this.

I know it's compulsory for landlords to have this done prior to letting to anyone nowadays. 

You do need to be careful of that.

A complete rewire is a very disruptive event, so you would want to have it done before moving in ideally. So factor in storage for your stuff, hotel etc.

macman

What is compulsory for LL's is in no way required for a private seller. A surveyor has no more qualifications than any other layman to report on an electrical install, and will base such comments purely on a visual inspection. 95% of houses in the UK do not meet current regs, as they will have plastic CU's not metal, as now required. That doesn't make the system unsafe or 'in disrepair'. 'Dated' simply means its a few years old and so doesn't meet the current regs.
My definition of 'disrepair' would mean that there are things like broken sockets or switches, which constitute a safety hazard: not just because they are old.