Level 2 Homebuyer Survey Outcome - Electrical issues

CindyT

Evening all,

FTB here and I've just received my L2 survey back which flagged several issues. Its a 1975 house so not expecting it to be in tip-top shape, but one of the main areas of concern is the fact the property has never had the electrics checked/no certificate and the surveyor has said:

The meter is in the outside meter box. The consumer unit in the hall. The consumer unit contains RCDs (residual current devices) to protect users should there be a defect with the installation. Where visible, the installation has been wired in plastic covered cable. The electrical installation is dated and in disrepair.  There are some older type power sockets and switches present.  

Consequences / Recommendations.  

You must ask an approved electrical engineer to inspect and test the electrical installation and report to you before exchange of contracts as there is no current test certificate for the system and as  'Electrical  Safety  First'  (formerly  the  Electrical  Safety  Council)  recommends  a  periodic inspection when buying a previously occupied property. The electrical engineer must be registered with  either  the  National  Inspection  Council  for  Electrical  Installation  Contracting,  (NICEIC  are (www.niceic.com/)  or  with  the  Electrical  Contractors  Association,  (ECA  (www.eca.co.uk/).  Condition Rating 3. 
  

Advice/Warnings.  

• Your legal adviser should check the validity of any test certification for the installation. [We know there isn't one]
• The  number  of  socket  outlets  are  inadequate  for  modern  requirements  and  there  is  a  risk  of overloading the few sockets that are present.  
• Electrical faults are now the major cause of accidental fires in UK homes. The installation should be  checked  at  least  every  10  years  or  whenever  changes  are  made  to  the  property  or  when accidents occur which affect the electrical system.  

I've got a quote for the electrics to be tested to see what remedial work might be required etc and get a price.  Am I right in thinking that I need to pay for this rather than the seller?  I have sent this information onto my solicitor, but haven't heard anything back.  

Has anyone else had similar issues raised?  Obviously if we're gong to need to spend thousands and the seller doesn't budge on price, then we will likely have to cut our losses and withdraw from the sale.

Many thanks in advance for any info!

user1977

You don't need to get the electrics checked out - it's up to you, and I wouldn't bother unless I had particular concerns about something. Really all the surveyor is doing there is saying they're not an expert and aren't making further comment on the state of the electrics. And they will be saying that in every single survey they do. I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to be paying for any such checks.

CindyT

user1977 said:

You don't need to get the electrics checked out - it's up to you, and I wouldn't bother unless I had particular concerns about something. Really all the surveyor is doing there is saying they're not an expert and aren't making further comment on the state of the electrics. And they will be saying that in every single survey they do. I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to be paying for any such checks.

Thanks for your feedback. I think the fact it says "The electrical installation is dated and in disrepair" and "The number of socket outlets are  inadequate for modern requirements  and  there is a risk of overloading the few sockets that are present" has concerned us.

I assumed we'd have to pay for any test, just wanted to see if anyone else had done this.

I know it's compulsory for landlords to have this done prior to letting to anyone nowadays. 

TheJP

So rule of thumb, if you are buying the property you pay for all inspections and surveys. I would also advise to ask the surveyor or inspector if they feel the price offered reflects the condition of the property.

Gavin83

It depends what they mean by disrepair. Did they clarify? There’s certainly nothing wrong with it being dated nor having not had a previous inspection. 

Jonboy_1984

Did they give any pictures of the “older type sockets and switches”?

The fact it has RCDs means it has likely had some attention at some point. Does the district council have an online record of building control records, ours does that you can search via postcode for the last 25 years or so.

Annisele

Assuming that "disrepair" doesn't mean anything particularly scary, I doubt that it will cost "thousands" to be made safe. I don't say that based on any knowledge of electrical work, but I bought a house last year and our surveyor said similarly dire things about the electrics. It cost us less than £1,000 to sort the electrics out.

Our house had a fuse box rather than a consumer unit, so (despite my lack of knowledge) it was obvious to me from the first viewing that the electrics weren't going to be up to modern standards. The electrician who replaced the fuse box also replaced a couple of sockets - I can't remember what the problem was with them, but I wasn't going to argue with an electrician who said they needed to go.

Your costs might be quite a bit higher if you need a full rewire though - or if "disrepair" actually means that you've got live wires all over the place.

silvercar

Electrics don’t change just because the house has a new owner. If people are currently living in the house without any obvious issues I would be fairly relaxed. Any house built in the 70s is likely to be in a similar condition unless it has had a major refurb.

Noneforit999

As others have said, you don't 'need' to do anything. We presume the electrics are working ok without any issues, despite them being old and likely not up to modern regulations in certain areas. Looks like 1975 was when RCD's became a requirement so the install could easily be original or the board may well have been upgraded since then. 

Being 1975, its almost certainly going to have Upvc cabling but its still nearly 50 years old (assuming its original) so at some point in the future, its likely to require a rewire. It probably also has a CPC in the lighting circuit which is handy as it doesn't limit you on fitting or switches. 

It really depends on:

A) Has the install had any remedial work done over the years or has been literally been untouched since 1975. Remedial work might mean things like bonding have been done but on the other hand, old installs rarely had enough sockets and people often spurred off spurs etc. 
B.) What are your plans for the property. If you plan to do anything majorish like replace the kitchen, you may find you need a consumer unit upgrade at the very least and a list of remedial works that come out of an EICR to account for. 
C) There may be issues the current owners are not aware of which an EICR will find. Ours was 1965 and the EICR found the cabling was just above the 'resistence' test in terms of the quality of the cable but the biggest issue was the lounge had spur off a spur off a spur so the guy just said the list of remedial works will take almost as long to fix as a rewire anyway and the cabling will still be 60+ years old.

Chances are, you don't need anything major doing. If the CU has RCD protection already, an EICR will just list some remedial works. However if the install is that old and has had lots of DIY or bodge jobs over the years (spurs off spurs etc) then an EICR may suggest a rewire is recommended.

doodling

Hi,

The comment about risk kf overloading is saying that you might overload the sockets by the use of dodgy adapters because there are too few sockets.  That risk can be managed by you not doing that - use fused adapters.

The comment about electrical faults being the major cause of fires appears to be wrong according to:  https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/detailed-analysis-of-fires-attended-by-fire-and-rescue-services-england-april-2021-to-march-2022/detailed-analysis-of-fires-attended-by-fire-and-rescue-services-england-april-2021-to-march-2022

That appears to say the cooking is the major cause of fire (what a surprise!) and whilst electrical faults are a cause, more of them are related to appliances and leads rather than house wiring.

Of course statistics are not helpful when a specific installation is being assessed - you can't rely on statistics to protect you if the wiring is known to be dodgy but if you don't know anything about it then the odds are that it will be something you plug in rather than the house wiring which starts a fire.

The only thing that concerns me is the statement that the electrical installation is in disrepair, I would want to talk to the surveyor to understand exactly what that meant.  I would also want to understand what "older type switches and sockets" were at the same time, noting that just because stuff is old doesn't mean that it is dangerous.

Simonon77

The electrics are only 48 years old. Most houses from the 70s will have the original wiring. As long as they are all working fine ( an electrical inspection will confirm this ) then there is no need to do anything in a hurry.

You can get extra sockets added if you find you need more in the future. Not everyone uses loads of electrical devices so it's not always an issue.

An electrician will tell you it 'needs' a complete rewire, new consumer unit etc... but as long as the installation is safe, then there is no need to worry about it or pull out of the sale.