Wye Valley Visitor Centre ParkingEye POPLA Appeal

drbayleaf

In which case what are they playing at?
I did notice that sum requested is different in this "reply".

Coupon-mad

drbayleaf said:

Odd response from PE.

I sent that email, tweaked slightly but re-iterating my evidence, all the bits about PAP, request for documents (if they don't want to cancel this unfair PCN), asked them to refer to someone with legal knowledge etc. I got this response which seems unrelated to my letter to them. Do they even read correspondence?

Dear Sir / Madam,

We write regarding the above referenced Parking Charge, which concerned a breach of

the parking terms and conditions on the 11 April 2023 at Wye Valley Visitor Centre, Ross-on-Wye.

Following receipt of your correspondence and your request for Alternative Dispute Resolution, you were provided with 28 days to lodge an appeal with POPLA. We have received confirmation from POPLA that your further appeal has now been considered and that POPLA has found in Parkingeye’s favour. We note that the full amount of the Parking Charge remains outstanding and that we have been unable to reach an agreement in respect of the same via the Reply Form or via Alternative Dispute Resolution. We now require full payment of the outstanding sum of £100.00 within the next 14 days or further action will be taken. Should court  proceedings be issued, further costs will be incurred. These will include, but are not limited to, the court claim issue fee and the solicitors costs referred to within the LBCCC.

Yours faithfully,

Parkingeye Team

It's not a reply.

It's an auto-generated letter after a POPLA loss. From a different team.

You haven't had a reply yet.

drbayleaf

I'm nervous their "new" 14 days will elapse and put me into court proceedings.

I want to respond to this latest email explaining that it makes no sense, is seemingly unrelated to my letter to them, and that I am continuing to wait for a proper response. (I did after all ask for documents under PAP for proof the machines were working).

That way they can't turn round and tell me I ignored their correspondence.

I could, as mentioned, take it up with Gemma Dorans, but I suspect she wouldn't be interested in my case?

Coupon-mad

Why wouldn't she?

drbayleaf

Because I don't for a second trust that the BPA is anything other than a self-promoting cartel / lobby group.

But at your encouragement I might as well write anyway.

drbayleaf

Pee have just replied afresh assuring me "We can confirm that we have now reviewed your recent correspondence", but they are not willing to offer any resolution and want either my money (though the balance is seemingly 100 not the 120 in a previous letter). They are still refusing to refer to me by my name (intimidating) despite me explicitly asking them to do so. They have not responded to my request for them to send evidence that the machines were working (perhaps they don't have to if the machines were not working?!).

Dear Sir / Madam,

We write regarding the above referenced Parking Charge, which concerned a breach of the parking terms and conditions on the 11 April 2023 at Wye Valley Visitor Centre, Ross-on-Wye, and your recent correspondence received in relation to the same.

We can confirm that we have now reviewed your recent correspondence, but we maintain our position that the full amount of the Parking Charge remains outstanding and that we have been unable to reach an agreement in respect of the same via the Reply Form.

We now require full payment of the outstanding sum of £100.00 within the next 14 days or legal action will be taken. Should court proceedings be issued, further costs will be incurred. These will include, but are not limited to, the court claim issue fee and the solicitors costs referred to within the LBCCC.

Haven't written to Gemma yet or MPs.

1505grandad

An observation  -  not sure how long the following statement has been on the Wye Valley website but I can't see how you can pay later if by the OP's experience you are penalised even when paying during the visit:-

"No cash? No card? No smartphone? No problem! You can pay for parking before midnight the same day by phoning 0330 400 7275 quoting location number 800672."

KeithP

1505grandad said:

An observation  -  not sure how long the following statement has been on the Wye Valley website but I can't see how you can pay later if by the OP's experience you are penalised even when paying during the visit:-

"No cash? No card? No smartphone? No problem! You can pay for parking before midnight the same day by phoning 0330 400 7275 quoting location number 800672."

That's good to see @1505grandad.

Using the Wayback Machine, we can see that a very similar term...

...was on their website as far back as June 2021. 
Every image of that webpage on Wayback Machine since June 2021 includes that comment, so it is reasonable to assume that statement was there on the day of parking - 11th April 2023. 

Note that in April 2023 - the date of the parking event - the wording on their website was "You can pay for parking up to a day after your visit". It did not become more restrictive until May 2023.

drbayleaf

Thanks for spotting that @1505grandadand @KeithP 👍.

Given dodgy Pee rely solely on the precise ANRP timestamps of exit-entry to calculate the "parking" time (and then conjure up infringements) the visitor is still at a loss to know if the time they are paying to park for (either at the machine, or a day later) is the right time to cover the exact seconds between driving in and driving out. 

Surely the honest solution is for Pee to provide PayByPhone (etc) with the entry timestamp so the motorist is informed - or rather the app tells them what parking time is correct. Especially if the are near that 4-hour boundary teetering between £3 and a £100 fine.

The apps can already give "your parking is nearly up" reminders, but this is useless if that parking time is not the time which Pee are using to issue fines on. There must be some back and forth between Pee and Pay Apps to get the payment data. Hmmm.... as a data scientist myself I can see that they probably get a CSV of numberplate and pay spans and then do a simple spreadsheet

=if(timestamps > payment time, ISSUE FINE, no fine)

drbayleaf

Seems like I've got my final correspondence before court as this time I actually received an email from them rather than attachment addressed to me by name (as I have repeatedly requested).

Dear Mr B*****,

Thank you for your correspondence.

You are able to make a Subject Access request (SAR) and should you wish to do so then you would be entitled to the following information:

• A copy of the information which we hold about you;

• Information pertaining to what personal data is being processed; and

• Details of the source of that data.

For the avoidance of doubt, the above data does not include technical information relating to the calibration of the ParkingEye system.

We would now refer you to our previous correspondence which advised that we maintain our position that the full amount of the Parking Charge remains outstanding and that we have been unable to reach an agreement in respect of the same via the Reply Form.

We now require full payment of the outstanding sum of £100.00 within the next 14 days or legal action will be taken. Should court proceedings be issued, further costs will be incurred. These will include, but are not limited to, the court claim issue fee and the solicitors costs referred to within the LBCCC.

So court it is. Can I win? (worried emoji face)