Do all wills go to probate

getmore4less

smk77 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

smk77 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Not only will the executors have to apply for probate, they will also have to file an IHT return. If she was a widow then there will be no IHT to pay but her residential NRB will be needed which requires a return to be made. If she was not a widows then everything over £500k will be subject to IHT.

Apologies for jumping on this thread but in a similar situation with similar property value and savings. Thought that the answer to my question might be of use to the OP.

My dad's property is worth about £550k and he had about £200k. He recently passed away. Mum died in 2004. I understand her nil band at that time was £263k and because this was pre-2018, the residence nil band for her is £100k.

You have misunderstood the rules on this, the transferable NRB is based on the current allowance not when the first spouse died, so if none of her NRB was used then the full £325k TNRB is available. Had she used up some of the NRB then the transferable allowance  would be adjusted on a percentage basis.

The same applies to the residential NRB.

This gives:
Dad - £325k plus £175k (£500k)
Mum - £263k plus £100k (£363k)

Total £863k. As estate worth about £750k, IHT wan't be applicable. However, do I still need to fill out the IHT400 form? The reason I ask is from what I can see, IHT form needs to be sent before IHT435 & IHT436 (deceased and pre-deceased partners residence nil band rate) so HMRC won't take into account these and will see it as £325k + £263k as the nil band rates which is less that the value of the estate. Hope that makes sense!

The total exemption is £1M, but with an estate of £750k you will need to use both NRBs and his RNRB. Because you need to claim the RNRB you will have to submit IHT 400 and all the associated supplementary forms including 435 ( you won’t need 436 as you won't need to claim the TRNRB).

All these forms are returned together. It is the probate forms that have to be sent later.

Thanks. I'm not sure I follow the £1M. For 2004, the NRB was £263k. For pre-2017 I've read that the RNRB is treated as £100k. However, I've also read that because it's pre-2017, they take the figure at the time of the 2nd death and therefore £175k. But, that doesn't explain the NRB being £325k.

It's based on the % unused applied to the rate on second death.

Get the forms and work through the numbers using the help sheets

smk77

getmore4less said:

smk77 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

smk77 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Not only will the executors have to apply for probate, they will also have to file an IHT return. If she was a widow then there will be no IHT to pay but her residential NRB will be needed which requires a return to be made. If she was not a widows then everything over £500k will be subject to IHT.

Apologies for jumping on this thread but in a similar situation with similar property value and savings. Thought that the answer to my question might be of use to the OP.

My dad's property is worth about £550k and he had about £200k. He recently passed away. Mum died in 2004. I understand her nil band at that time was £263k and because this was pre-2018, the residence nil band for her is £100k.

You have misunderstood the rules on this, the transferable NRB is based on the current allowance not when the first spouse died, so if none of her NRB was used then the full £325k TNRB is available. Had she used up some of the NRB then the transferable allowance  would be adjusted on a percentage basis.

The same applies to the residential NRB.

This gives:
Dad - £325k plus £175k (£500k)
Mum - £263k plus £100k (£363k)

Total £863k. As estate worth about £750k, IHT wan't be applicable. However, do I still need to fill out the IHT400 form? The reason I ask is from what I can see, IHT form needs to be sent before IHT435 & IHT436 (deceased and pre-deceased partners residence nil band rate) so HMRC won't take into account these and will see it as £325k + £263k as the nil band rates which is less that the value of the estate. Hope that makes sense!

The total exemption is £1M, but with an estate of £750k you will need to use both NRBs and his RNRB. Because you need to claim the RNRB you will have to submit IHT 400 and all the associated supplementary forms including 435 ( you won’t need 436 as you won't need to claim the TRNRB).

All these forms are returned together. It is the probate forms that have to be sent later.

Thanks. I'm not sure I follow the £1M. For 2004, the NRB was £263k. For pre-2017 I've read that the RNRB is treated as £100k. However, I've also read that because it's pre-2017, they take the figure at the time of the 2nd death and therefore £175k. But, that doesn't explain the NRB being £325k.

It's based on the % unused applied to the rate on second death.

Get the forms and work through the numbers using the help sheets

I've been going through the forms this evening and see how it works on them...Thanks

longwalks1

BooJewels said:

As an additional comment, I wonder what you mean/understand by 'go to Probate' - as it's often misunderstood and a rather mis-used word.  I think a lot of people offering these services deliberately make it sound complicated and mysterious to frighten you into using their services.

When Probate is required to sell a house or access particular funds, this is a process where you apply to the Government Court - HM Courts & Tribunals Service / HMCTS - by filling in forms and sending these off/or on-line with the original Will and the court examine these documents and if successful supply a Grant of Probate which is a single sheet certificate, that declares that the will has been proved and the executors do indeed have the rights to undertake these processes. 

This is something you can certainly do yourselves, you don't need to engage professionals for this process - some people prefer to, but it's expensive and probably more time-consuming, but you certainly don't have to.  For the most part, it is a form filling exercise and if you ask a Probate company or solicitor to do this for you, you will have to supply them with all the information to go on the form, so they become very expensive form fillers on your behalf.

Thank you BooJewels - this is what I was thinking deep down.  We’re not adverse to complicated form filling as I recently transferred a pension, which was more involved that applying for a mortgage or buying a house!  

We (I say ‘we’ as my partner isn’t great with complex paperwork) will look into probate ourselves (the 3 siblings) and pop back with any questions.

if I’m right, regarding IHT, the total estate being worth approx £750k will be void of IHT? Dad passed 10 years ago so his £375k and £175k allowances roll-over and add to mums £500k allowance?

BooJewels

Others will know more than me about IHT limits, but it would be my understanding that if your Dad passed everything to your Mum, you do indeed have his allowances too - so you won't have IHT to pay - but still have to do the IHT forms to prove that - I think it might be IHT400.   I think you now have to submit the IHT forms to HMRC before doing the Probate application. They've slightly changed the system since I did my fathers.  But hopefully someone else will confirm that for you.

Keep_pedalling

BooJewels said:

Others will know more than me about IHT limits, but it would be my understanding that if your Dad passed everything to your Mum, you do indeed have his allowances too - so you won't have IHT to pay - but still have to do the IHT forms to prove that - I think it might be IHT400.   I think you now have to submit the IHT forms to HMRC before doing the Probate application. They've slightly changed the system since I did my fathers.  But hopefully someone else will confirm that for you.

It will be IHT 400 plus a number of supplementary forms. If you work though IHT400 it should become clear on what supplementaries will be needed.

longwalks1

Thanks again BooJewels and Keep_Pedalling
we are meeting up with the brother this week so will work through IHT400 online before doing probate application.  

Fingers crossed it’s a relatively smooth process!