Do all wills go to probate

longwalks1

My partner lost her elderly mum last week and I have a few questions on her behalf (she doesn’t use forums).  

Lost MIL last week, she was 86 and had been in a care home the last 2 months (paying privately), and 2 months prior to that in hospital following a fall and multiple water infections.  MIL has 1 daughter and 2 sons who in her will (which was updated about 18 months ago) was agreed to split the entire estate (house and several savings accounts) equally between the 3 siblings.

brother seems to think every will goes to probate, I didn’t think that was the case?  

He said that because of the value involved it will.  Rough guess is 3 bed house worth maybe £500k and between £200k-£250k in savings, ISA’s and bank accounts etc.

Does it sound like it will go to probate?  Anything I’ve missed please ask, and thank you all in advance for your help

RAS

Probate is necessary to sell the house and may be necessary to access the savings. It depends where they are kept and the individual provider's rules. 

If this had been left to a spouse, May well not have needed probate.

doodling

Hi,

Probate will be required for the owner of the house to change (which it will have to in order for it to be owned by anyone other than MIL), unless it was jointly owned.

If the house was jointly owned then the nature of the joint ownership and/or the number of joint owners will matter in determining if probate is required.

In general, probate is only required when someone insists on it.  Banks will insist if an account holds more than a certain amount (e.g. £10k), the Land Registry always insists unless the property was jointly owned in which case it might not be necessary depending on the exact circumstance.

BooJewels

As others have said Probate will certainly be required to sell the house, may be required to access cash funds, depending on the amount, their nature and the rules of that organisation (they seemingly also consider how much is held in total with other organisations).  It would probably be required if there are any shares or investments to cash in.  So I would guess that you're likely to need it, depending on your plans for the house.

I've executed 4 estates in about the same amount of years and required Probate for 2 and not for the other 2.

Mojisola

longwalks1 said:

brother seems to think every will goes to probate, I didn’t think that was the case?  

Does it sound like it will go to probate? 

No, not all wills do go to probate.

But MIL's will have to go to probate.

BooJewels

As an additional comment, I wonder what you mean/understand by 'go to Probate' - as it's often misunderstood and a rather mis-used word.  I think a lot of people offering these services deliberately make it sound complicated and mysterious to frighten you into using their services.

When Probate is required to sell a house or access particular funds, this is a process where you apply to the Government Court - HM Courts & Tribunals Service / HMCTS - by filling in forms and sending these off/or on-line with the original Will and the court examine these documents and if successful supply a Grant of Probate which is a single sheet certificate, that declares that the will has been proved and the executors do indeed have the rights to undertake these processes. 

This is something you can certainly do yourselves, you don't need to engage professionals for this process - some people prefer to, but it's expensive and probably more time-consuming, but you certainly don't have to.  For the most part, it is a form filling exercise and if you ask a Probate company or solicitor to do this for you, you will have to supply them with all the information to go on the form, so they become very expensive form fillers on your behalf.

Keep_pedalling

Not only will the executors have to apply for probate, they will also have to file an IHT return. If she was a widow then there will be no IHT to pay but her residential NRB will be needed which requires a return to be made. If she was not a widows then everything over £500k will be subject to IHT.

Spendless

Not every will does, but your partner's Mum's will. My Nan died earlier this year, she'd been in a care home for 8 years and her home sold to pay for the care. Her will didn't go to probate because what was left of her estate was too small. 

smk77

Keep_pedalling said:

Not only will the executors have to apply for probate, they will also have to file an IHT return. If she was a widow then there will be no IHT to pay but her residential NRB will be needed which requires a return to be made. If she was not a widows then everything over £500k will be subject to IHT.

Apologies for jumping on this thread but in a similar situation with similar property value and savings. Thought that the answer to my question might be of use to the OP.

My dad's property is worth about £550k and he had about £200k. He recently passed away. Mum died in 2004. I understand her nil band at that time was £263k and because this was pre-2018, the residence nil band for her is £100k.

This gives:
Dad - £325k plus £175k (£500k)
Mum - £263k plus £100k (£363k)

Total £863k. As estate worth about £750k, IHT wan't be applicable. However, do I still need to fill out the IHT400 form? The reason I ask is from what I can see, IHT form needs to be sent before IHT435 & IHT436 (deceased and pre-deceased partners residence nil band rate) so HMRC won't take into account these and will see it as £325k + £263k as the nil band rates which is less that the value of the estate. Hope that makes sense!

Keep_pedalling

smk77 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Not only will the executors have to apply for probate, they will also have to file an IHT return. If she was a widow then there will be no IHT to pay but her residential NRB will be needed which requires a return to be made. If she was not a widows then everything over £500k will be subject to IHT.

Apologies for jumping on this thread but in a similar situation with similar property value and savings. Thought that the answer to my question might be of use to the OP.

My dad's property is worth about £550k and he had about £200k. He recently passed away. Mum died in 2004. I understand her nil band at that time was £263k and because this was pre-2018, the residence nil band for her is £100k.

You have misunderstood the rules on this, the transferable NRB is based on the current allowance not when the first spouse died, so if none of her NRB was used then the full £325k TNRB is available. Had she used up some of the NRB then the transferable allowance  would be adjusted on a percentage basis.

The same applies to the residential NRB.

This gives:
Dad - £325k plus £175k (£500k)
Mum - £263k plus £100k (£363k)

Total £863k. As estate worth about £750k, IHT wan't be applicable. However, do I still need to fill out the IHT400 form? The reason I ask is from what I can see, IHT form needs to be sent before IHT435 & IHT436 (deceased and pre-deceased partners residence nil band rate) so HMRC won't take into account these and will see it as £325k + £263k as the nil band rates which is less that the value of the estate. Hope that makes sense!

The total exemption is £1M, but with an estate of £750k you will need to use both NRBs and his RNRB. Because you need to claim the RNRB you will have to submit IHT 400 and all the associated supplementary forms including 435 ( you won’t need 436 as you won't need to claim the TRNRB).

All these forms are returned together. It is the probate forms that have to be sent later.

smk77

Keep_pedalling said:

smk77 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Not only will the executors have to apply for probate, they will also have to file an IHT return. If she was a widow then there will be no IHT to pay but her residential NRB will be needed which requires a return to be made. If she was not a widows then everything over £500k will be subject to IHT.

Apologies for jumping on this thread but in a similar situation with similar property value and savings. Thought that the answer to my question might be of use to the OP.

My dad's property is worth about £550k and he had about £200k. He recently passed away. Mum died in 2004. I understand her nil band at that time was £263k and because this was pre-2018, the residence nil band for her is £100k.

You have misunderstood the rules on this, the transferable NRB is based on the current allowance not when the first spouse died, so if none of her NRB was used then the full £325k TNRB is available. Had she used up some of the NRB then the transferable allowance  would be adjusted on a percentage basis.

The same applies to the residential NRB.

This gives:
Dad - £325k plus £175k (£500k)
Mum - £263k plus £100k (£363k)

Total £863k. As estate worth about £750k, IHT wan't be applicable. However, do I still need to fill out the IHT400 form? The reason I ask is from what I can see, IHT form needs to be sent before IHT435 & IHT436 (deceased and pre-deceased partners residence nil band rate) so HMRC won't take into account these and will see it as £325k + £263k as the nil band rates which is less that the value of the estate. Hope that makes sense!

The total exemption is £1M, but with an estate of £750k you will need to use both NRBs and his RNRB. Because you need to claim the RNRB you will have to submit IHT 400 and all the associated supplementary forms including 435 ( you won’t need 436 as you won't need to claim the TRNRB).

All these forms are returned together. It is the probate forms that have to be sent later.

Thanks. I'm not sure I follow the £1M. For 2004, the NRB was £263k. For pre-2017 I've read that the RNRB is treated as £100k. However, I've also read that because it's pre-2017, they take the figure at the time of the 2nd death and therefore £175k. But, that doesn't explain the NRB being £325k.