How to resolve unfair division of stuff after death of a parent

silversnail

Thank you for your comment.  I am sorry I am not the only one having issues.  I hope you enjoyed your walk.  If it is left to my sister, she won't do anything to upset my brother, so that is a foregone conclusion.  

tetrarch

Sorry for your loss. It is a shame that these sad life and death events drive families apart rather than bringing them together.

You haven't stated whether or not there will be a requirement for probate, but assuming there is, there is indeed a way to engineer an outcome.

Irrespective of the inter-sibling squabbling you and your co-executors will have a legal duty to accurately report the value of your 
late father's estate. When the probate is applied for you will have to make the following declaration:

"Declaration

We confirm that we will administer the estate of ######, according to law. We will: collect the whole estate keep full details (an inventory) of the estate keep a full account of how the estate has been administered If the probate registry (court) asks us to do so, we will: provide the full details of the estate and how it has been administered return the grant of probate to the court

We understand that: our application will be rejected if we do not answer any questions about the information we have given proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against the undersigned if it is found that the evidence provided is deliberately untruthful or dishonest, as well as revocation of the grant"

You could stand your ground and outright insist that you will not make an knowingly untruthful declaration and force your brother to include the furniture will help when dividing the final estate. Bringing this legal point to your sister's attention may also encourage her to take a less passive path, especially if she is as risk and conflict averse as your post suggests

I agree this this is a slightly hardball approach, but it is legally and morally correct as well, in my personal opinion

Regards

Tet  

silversnail

Interesting.  And worth considering.
It is a tricky one. My brother is now saying that if the value of the said furniture is to be taken into account, then we have to have a valuation on everything that people have had.  (The rest of the furniture was nothing special, and technically would have a value, but only a few tens of pounds in reality.) I am not sure if he is talking down to the last minutiae of things - I have taken car loads of stuff to the charity shop/freecycled it, but if any family member wanted anything they were dished out; you know the sort of things, towels, bedding, clothes, books, kitchen items etc.   I suspect he doesn't know what he is talking about either.  Part of me is tempted to say yes, go ahead, get a valuation on everything. (This would be easy for me as I had very little from the house - I don't need more stuff and it wasn't my taste anyway.)  Gosh, I find myself bloody-minded at times.  However my sister wouldn't go for it...

silvercar

silversnail said:

Interesting.  And worth considering.
It is a tricky one. My brother is now saying that if the value of the said furniture is to be taken into account, then we have to have a valuation on everything that people have had.  (The rest of the furniture was nothing special, and technically would have a value, but only a few tens of pounds in reality.) I am not sure if he is talking down to the last minutiae of things - I have taken car loads of stuff to the charity shop/freecycled it, but if any family member wanted anything they were dished out; you know the sort of things, towels, bedding, clothes, books, kitchen items etc.   I suspect he doesn't know what he is talking about either.  Part of me is tempted to say yes, go ahead, get a valuation on everything. (This would be easy for me as I had very little from the house - I don't need more stuff and it wasn't my taste anyway.)  Gosh, I find myself bloody-minded at times.  However my sister wouldn't go for it...

His view isn’t unreasonable, though there needs to be a lower limit. I’ve seen similar with jewellery, someone picks a solitaire engagement ring and someone else takes a few lesser value items, it’s only fair that the value of all the jewellery is counted, not just the prized ring.

tetrarch

silvercar said:

silversnail said:

Interesting.  And worth considering.
It is a tricky one. My brother is now saying that if the value of the said furniture is to be taken into account, then we have to have a valuation on everything that people have had.  (The rest of the furniture was nothing special, and technically would have a value, but only a few tens of pounds in reality.) I am not sure if he is talking down to the last minutiae of things - I have taken car loads of stuff to the charity shop/freecycled it, but if any family member wanted anything they were dished out; you know the sort of things, towels, bedding, clothes, books, kitchen items etc.   I suspect he doesn't know what he is talking about either.  Part of me is tempted to say yes, go ahead, get a valuation on everything. (This would be easy for me as I had very little from the house - I don't need more stuff and it wasn't my taste anyway.)  Gosh, I find myself bloody-minded at times.  However my sister wouldn't go for it...

IMO, your brother has been caught and is now being an a##e. Time to call his bluff methinks....


From : https://www.geplegal.co.uk/library/trust-wills-and-probate/asset-valuation-problems-chattels/

"Valuing Personal Possessions for Probate

In general terms, when valuing assets for probate purposes, the appropriate valuation is the ‘open market value’. The value for which they could be sold if a bargain were made between a willing buyer and a willing seller. Specialised assets, such as works of art, stamp, book and coin collections and so on, should be valued by a professional valuer if likely to be of significant value. Cars can be valued by reference to a trade guide and boats by a yacht broker. 

Any items specifically mentioned in the will should be separately valued and, as a rule of thumb, individual items worth more than £500 should be assessed individually. Items that are widely traded (such as musical instruments) can, in some cases, be valued by reference to the prevailing prices on Internet auctions."

All the charity stuff is worth zero as it achieved a zero value, so you can ignore that. There is a long but finite list of the remaining items.

In order to keep your sister sweet you may have to do this yourself. To some extent a spreadsheet with numbers in columns and a total will certainly be enough.

Regards

Tet

silversnail

I am sure the only thing worth over 500 pounds is the furniture (and the car - not an issue in this case.) I wil share this with my sister. Thank you.

I would agree with your character study of my brother. However, he is probably not desperately happy, and is also rather unpleasant to people who try to help him, which makes it difficult. I suspect he has his own epithet for me too!!!!!

BooJewels

If there's also a car to dispose of, why not suggest to your siblings that the brother retains the furniture he already has possession of and you and your sister share the proceeds of the car, then everything else is split according to the will.

Even if it doesn't exactly balance out pound for pound, it's an olive branch and a reasonably fair solution where no one can really feel aggrieved.

It's hard enough dealing with a parental estate as it is - don't let such a modest amount fracture the family any further.

Pennylane

Some people take over and take everything they want before anyone else gets a look in. I don't think there's much you can do to be honest.

My husband's brother was Executor and when my MIL died everything was supposed to be shared 3 ways. He took all the antiques and there were loads, any garden equipment he wanted, domestic appliances, paintings before the other two even got there. They were left with basic everyday stuff like linens, beds, cutlery and anything else he hadn't already taken.

silversnail

People are bizarre, aren't they? I do wonder what goes on in their minds.

Sharing the car proceeds is certainly one way to potentially redress the balance; my fear is that he will decide he also needs a share of that. (I think that is the point to call on Tetrach's last post with items valued above £500.)

Thank you everyone for your input. I am now clearer about what should happen, and how to insist on due process if needed. I am also grateful for you advice to take a deep breath and rise above it.

I am also resolved to insist on all my possessions being burnt on my demise, to save all this hassle for my offspring. (Can't think they will want any of them anyway!)

Spendless

I think sharing the car just between you and sis is a great idea, since brother has had the car. I'm guessing that 50% of the car is roughly the same worth as the furniture brother has had? Like plan B to start lisiting everything if brother objects too.

My late MIL, knew she was dying (Cancer) only owned trinkets and a small amount of her cash and practical till the end, gave every family member a small token from her (eg ear-rings, her unusued soup maker)