Kitchen wall to remove structural or not?

daivid

@FlaatusGoat I agree with all the others that you should not proceed without getting a structural engineer to look at it & draw up necessary plans/ calculations. 

If you want a better (but not definitive) answer to start costing up could you ask your neighbours if they have gone open plan and if their walls were load bearing? It is likely (but not certain!) that the homes in the terrace were of similar construction originally. 

TELLIT01

FlaatusGoat said:

Who is this 'structual engineer' I'm supposed to magic out of thin air. You've either got general builders that could say anything or I could dish out £500 for a home survey?

A Google search on "structural engineers" will come up with those in your area.  A home survey certainly won't tell you if the walls are structural and what would be required to support upper floors if walls are removed.

MalMonroe

Hi, another vote here for not doing anything yourself instead of consulting an expert (aka structural engineer). 

Kirstie Allsopp, on all her house-buying/selling programmes, has a penchant for knocking on walls and declaring them either removable (hollow sound) or not (dull sound and harder on the knuckles).  If it is a stud wall (hollow sound) then it's non weight-bearing. If it isn't a stud wall then it probably is weight-bearing.

BUT you are going to need some help and advice before attempting anything, yes?  

There is some advice in the link here - 

https://www.propertypriceadvice.co.uk/home-improvements/beginners-guide-removing-internal-walls

But it's not worth just having a go yourself if you don't really know what you're doing. It could be catastrophic. Always best to be safe rather than sorry, even if you have to pay quite a bit for a structural engineer. I'd have a google, too. And with the best will in the world, we folk on here are not offering any professional building advice, more trying to help folk to save money. If possible. 

All the best, though and good luck with your project. If it were me, I think I'd rather move house because I don't like mess. But then, that is just my own opinion.

ThisIsWeird

Hi FG.

You will presumably want this building cert'd so that, when you come to sell, you'll be able to demonstrate it's been done correctly? Because almost certainly, potential buyers will realise a wall has been removed, and will want that reassurance.

When sil wanted this done around a decade ago, we applied for the 'small building works' or whatever it was called - it cost around £150 to the best of my recollection, and covered the BCO coming out a couple of times. On the first 'pre'-visit, he confirmed an SE would be required. I asked if he could recommend any, but he said he wasn't permitted to do so. "But if you were to ask if I know of any in the area, a couple of names would include X and Y..." I asked both for quotes. One was from a glossy co, and the quote was in the many-£undreds. The other was a sole SE, and he said he'd pop in one the way back from a job - "ooh, £85?" He gave calcs for all options - timber, flitch, steel. 

So, I'd suggest it needs doing properly, not just for safety, but for resale.

Section62

MalMonroe said:

Kirstie Allsopp, on all her house-buying/selling programmes, has a penchant for knocking on walls and declaring them either removable (hollow sound) or not (dull sound and harder on the knuckles).  If it is a stud wall (hollow sound) then it's non weight-bearing. If it isn't a stud wall then it probably is weight-bearing.

Not sure if you are still quoting Kirstie there, but for the avoidance of any doubt, neither of the statements in bold are correct.

Whether or not a wall is load bearing (not just weight) can't be determined from material/construction alone.

Knocking on a wall is the building equivalent of kicking tyres.  The only thing it tells you for sure is the person doing the knocking/kicking doesn't know as much as they think they do.

FlaatusGoat

Well, I just scoured RM and on all the historical listing for properties in that particular enclave/development NOT one had that kitchen wall knocked down. Some of the identical terraces has the bathroom wall directly in line with the kitchen wall. So I presume that's my answer?

Emmia

FlaatusGoat said:

Well, I just scoured RM and on all the historical listing for properties in that particular enclave/development NOT one had that kitchen wall knocked down. Some of the identical terraces has the bathroom wall directly in line with the kitchen wall. So I presume that's my answer?

Hiring a structural engineer is the proper answer, not knocking or scouring rightmove.

Kirstie Allsopp's knocking technique is probably followed / preceded with calculations from a structural engineer who is never seen on camera.

FreeBear

Section62 said: Whether or not a wall is load bearing (not just weight) can't be determined from material/construction alone.

Knocking on a wall is the building equivalent of kicking tyres.  The only thing it tells you for sure is the person doing the knocking/kicking doesn't know as much as they think they do.

Indeed. There is a wall in my kitchen (late 1920s build) that is stud - It supports the end of the staircase on the other side of the wall. Upstairs, a pair of stud walls that have short lengths of 3x2 timbers resting on top for the ceilings. With some 200Kg of lime plaster stuck to the ceilings either side, it would be irresponsible to take those walls down without consulting an expert beforehand.

mi-key

FlaatusGoat said:

Well, I just scoured RM and on all the historical listing for properties in that particular enclave/development NOT one had that kitchen wall knocked down. Some of the identical terraces has the bathroom wall directly in line with the kitchen wall. So I presume that's my answer?

It's possible they just hadn't wanted to remove the wall, rather than saying its definitely structural.

But... get an engineer in, it won't cost much compared to the repair costs if you do knock one down and it causes damage to the house ( which the insurance won't cover ). If it turns out it isn't, then you can knock it down safe in the knowledge its fine to do, and the money you will save compared to having to get a builder in to do it will pay for the engineer anyway.  

mi-key

Section62 said:

MalMonroe said:

Kirstie Allsopp, on all her house-buying/selling programmes, has a penchant for knocking on walls and declaring them either removable (hollow sound) or not (dull sound and harder on the knuckles).  If it is a stud wall (hollow sound) then it's non weight-bearing. If it isn't a stud wall then it probably is weight-bearing.

Not sure if you are still quoting Kirstie there, but for the avoidance of any doubt, neither of the statements in bold are correct.

Whether or not a wall is load bearing (not just weight) can't be determined from material/construction alone.

Knocking on a wall is the building equivalent of kicking tyres.  The only thing it tells you for sure is the person doing the knocking/kicking doesn't know as much as they think they do.

Absolutely!  All the internal wall in my house are solid brick ( 1960s bungalow ). Some are supporting, and some aren't as some are just the walls of built in cupboards they designed as part of the layout.