PCN notice for parking in my own space at a rented property

Boat_to_Bolivia

Ben191197 said:

Coupon-mad said:

You don't seem to have read the thread all all bout Successful complaints about PPCs yet, which is why I advised you to go back to the NEWBIES thread (where it is linked).  I wasn't fobbing you off.  It's exactly what you should have been reading.

Thanks, I've been back and re-read and realised I was misinterpreting some things the first time round!

It's a lot to take in and understand in one sitting...give yourself time to absorb all the information.

I've been reading for over 6 months and I still don't 'get' it all but I am learning out of interest rather than necessity.  

Mouse007

Boat_to_Bolivia said:

It's a lot to take in and understand in one sitting...give yourself time to absorb all the information.

I've been reading for over 6 months and I still don't 'get' it all ...

I agree, it's not easy stuff. I had the advantage of having had to study and pass professional exams in contract law some 32 years ago. Ever since I have had to deal with solicitors (and now a judge) who know nothing about the law.

The trick is understanding conceptually why a rule or law exists - that requires a different stand back approach to your thinking.

Don't feel bad or stupid about this, just keep posting and keep thinking.

Half_way

Fruitcake said:

In addition to your complaint to the landowner and managing agent, you should also complain to your MP. 

You should also look up the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, then ask the MA (or whoever employed the PPC) when the mandatory ballot of all landlords and tenants in accordance with Part IV, Section 37 of this Act was carried out, and what was the result of said ballot.
Point out that without a majority in favour, the MA have no right to vary your lease. 

Also point out that they, the MA, are responsible for the actions of their agents and are jointly and severally liable. Ask then to supply the names and contact details of their legal representatives, and the names and contact details of the people who will act as their witnesses should this matter go to court. Tell them to bear in mind that VCS are part of the unregulated private parking industry referred to as rogues, scammers, and bloodsuckers by MPs across all parties, and that this company is extremely litigious taking hundreds and hundreds of motorists to court every year, dragging down the people who contract them in the process. 

you could also throw in GDPR

 In order to obtain and process personal data ( ie from the DVLA) they must have a good lawful reason to do so, and take due diligence to ensure that everything is  as it should be.

 If they have not taken checked to see if they have the right to impose a parking scheme , ie as per the landlord and tenant act then it could be said they are processing personal data with just cause . GDPR also introduces  or introduced as its been in force for a while something called personal liability and while going for that is a high bar to acheive, it is there non the less .

 This means that if the management company is called doosodall property management and Joe Bloggs signed the deal with the parking company then as principal, doosodall will be jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents.

 And if agents of doosodall breach GDPR then  Joe Bloggs could be personally liable - this means that Joe Bloggs and not doosodall could face prosecution

 A high bar but there non the less and worth exploring when dealign with the management agents , even if it gives them pause for thought.

Also the Management agents may have signed a contract with VCS making it hard/impossible for them to exit, that is there problem not yours.

B789

A suggestion for Plan A, part 1...

Dear [Property Managing Agent],

I am writing to you to raise my concerns about the private parking company, VCS, that you have contracted to manage the parking on the premises. I have been issued with a parking charge notice (PCN) for parking in my own bay, despite the fact that I have not breached any terms of my tenancy agreement.

I would like to remind you that VCS has no right to issue parking charges to me for parking in my own bay, whether or not I display a permit. The fact that there is no mention in my tenancy agreement about any third party having any right to impose terms or conditions beyond those stipulated is raised as a matter of concern. As the property management company, you are jointly liable for the actions of your agent, who has breached my GDPR rights by allowing the private parking company to request my data from the DVLA in a breach of the KADOE rules.

I demand that you take immediate action to rectify this situation. This includes ensuring that VCS is made aware of their lack of authority to issue parking charges to me or any other tenant as we have primacy of contract and unless you have amended our leases as per the Landlord & Tenant Act 1987 section 37(5)(a) or (5)(b), I demand that any outstanding charges are cancelled immediately.

Furthermore, I expect that you will take steps to ensure that VCS complies with all relevant laws and regulations in the future, and that you will put measures in place to prevent similar situations from arising again.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]

Fruitcake

I still think you should ask when a ballot to vary your lease was taken and what was the result as a variation of your lease cannot otherwise be lawfully imposed.

Ben191197

So a quick update on this, as I am also a little unsure how to proceed. I sent an email to the management company of the building I live in, and here's what I outlined:

* Told them what happened and that I got a PCN for parking in my own bay, despite not breaching any terms of my tenancy agreement.
* Explained that VCS has no rights to do so, that there is nothing in my agreement that allows it, and they have taken away some of my rights. Also that VCS has breached some of my GDPR rights by accessing my information.
* Demanded that they take action and cancel the charges, unless they have amended the lease under the Landlord and Tenant Act, and if so asked for proof.
* Reminded them that if the issue goes to court, they are jointly liable.

That was last week. Got no response and pushed for one which I received today. They simply said along the lines of my behaviour towards them being 'appalling' since I am their tenant, and to desist with my threats as they do not take them lightly. They also said if I have an issue that I should take it up with my landlord. This doesn't seem like something that has anything to do with my landlord so I'm not sure if that's a good idea, or if they have any leg to stand on there.

B789

Ben191197 said:

They simply said along the lines of my behaviour towards them being 'appalling' since I am their tenant, and to desist with my threats as they do not take them lightly. They also said if I have an issue that I should take it up with my landlord. This doesn't seem like something that has anything to do with my landlord so I'm not sure if that's a good idea, or if they have any leg to stand on there.

Who contracted VCS? The landlord or the managing agents?

Coupon-mad

Ben191197 said:

So a quick update on this, as I am also a little unsure how to proceed. I sent an email to the management company of the building I live in, and here's what I outlined:

* Told them what happened and that I got a PCN for parking in my own bay, despite not breaching any terms of my tenancy agreement.
* Explained that VCS has no rights to do so, that there is nothing in my agreement that allows it, and they have taken away some of my rights. Also that VCS has breached some of my GDPR rights by accessing my information.
* Demanded that they take action and cancel the charges, unless they have amended the lease under the Landlord and Tenant Act, and if so asked for proof.
* Reminded them that if the issue goes to court, they are jointly liable.

That was last week. Got no response and pushed for one which I received today. They simply said along the lines of my behaviour towards them being 'appalling' since I am their tenant, and to desist with my threats as they do not take them lightly. They also said if I have an issue that I should take it up with my landlord. This doesn't seem like something that has anything to do with my landlord so I'm not sure if that's a good idea, or if they have any leg to stand on there.

Show us that email please.

Ben191197

B789 said:

Ben191197 said:

They simply said along the lines of my behaviour towards them being 'appalling' since I am their tenant, and to desist with my threats as they do not take them lightly. They also said if I have an issue that I should take it up with my landlord. This doesn't seem like something that has anything to do with my landlord so I'm not sure if that's a good idea, or if they have any leg to stand on there.

Who contracted VCS? The landlord or the managing agents?

It was the managing agent that contracted them, not the landlord.

Coupon-mad said:

Ben191197 said:

So a quick update on this, as I am also a little unsure how to proceed. I sent an email to the management company of the building I live in, and here's what I outlined:

* Told them what happened and that I got a PCN for parking in my own bay, despite not breaching any terms of my tenancy agreement.
* Explained that VCS has no rights to do so, that there is nothing in my agreement that allows it, and they have taken away some of my rights. Also that VCS has breached some of my GDPR rights by accessing my information.
* Demanded that they take action and cancel the charges, unless they have amended the lease under the Landlord and Tenant Act, and if so asked for proof.
* Reminded them that if the issue goes to court, they are jointly liable.

That was last week. Got no response and pushed for one which I received today. They simply said along the lines of my behaviour towards them being 'appalling' since I am their tenant, and to desist with my threats as they do not take them lightly. They also said if I have an issue that I should take it up with my landlord. This doesn't seem like something that has anything to do with my landlord so I'm not sure if that's a good idea, or if they have any leg to stand on there.

Show us that email please.

Which email? The one that I sent or the one that the managing agent replied with?

Also I heard from my landlord last night. Apparently she has been made aware that I complained to the management. The discussion I had with her didn't result in much other than her advising I contact VCS themselves about the issue. She also sent an email to the building manager explaining she wants less strict monitoring of the parking and outlined a some suggested changes to the regulations. What this entails I don't know but at least she's on my side, although I don't know if that helps me get any closer to resolving the PCN.

Fruitcake

The email from the MA suggesting that your actions are appalling.

Your Landlord isn't really on your side if she has allowed an unregulated PPC onto her land, have failed to instruct the MA to get the charge cancelled, and allowed a breach of your lease/AST to take place.