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NTK vs PCN clarification

Hi both I've read the newbie post and previously been involved in a similar appeal with help from this forum. I'd say successful - they noted the appeal and it vanished. 

In this case - I believe that its an NTK note- but says a PCN was issued(?). Its for being 60 seconds over what is supposedly a 2 hour free stay in a retail car park (didn't used to be) auto ticket for cameras.

Company is baysentry.

As circumstances are different I'm unsure to send a similar appeal letter.

There's the standard lease company charging £10 for administration of the NTK.. which was the case last time (not sure if this was fought as it probably days in the ts and cs)

Many thanks.- I know I have searched under ntk but not clear on the difference. 
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Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    First of all, the PCN cannot be for being 'a minute over free time' because there's a mandatory 10 minute grace period.

    It has not been issued for that.  Impossible.

    So, if it's a 2 hour free car park, I suspect the PCN is due to not inputting your VRM into a keypad.  Or a typo in the VRM (a keying error).

    The 'PCN' is probably the one they sent to the lease firm.  Then have they sent this one to you in your name?

    How long after the parking event is this dated?

    Is it actually called a Notice to Hirer?

    Any enclosures with it, or nothing?

    Or is this NTK simply the one sent to the lease firm and they've passed it to you but it doesn't have your name on?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    cohl123 said:
    There's the standard lease company charging £10 for administration of the NTK.. which was the case last time (not sure if this was fought as it probably days in the ts and cs)
    Also, re-read the Ts&Cs of your lease as most do not cover charges from private parking companies. Most leases and hire agreements refer to "fines" or "penalties" of which this is neither. It may be worth following up on this as what you have is a speculative invoice from a private parking company that alleges a debt for an alleged breach of contract. Nothing to do with a fine or penalty.
  • cohl123
    cohl123 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    NTK to lease company - assume its as you say about REG keying as it will have been automatic. Is the appeal different to a draft PCN I've used? It is a different case 
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,788 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    The hire company can't just copy the NtK to you and tell you to get on with dealing with it. They need to inform the PPC that you were the vehicle hirer, giving them your name and address, thereby transferring liability to you, absolving themselves dealing with the charge any further.  You will then receive a Notice to Hirer (NtH) in your name from the PPC. 

    I'm surprised a hire company like Lex Autolease aren't aware of how to do this correctly. When they copied you the NtK, what did they say?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    By doing what they have done, it is Lex that will be the recipient of any claim. They do not know who the driver was and have not transferred liability to the Hirer. Inevitably, many leasing companies screw this up, usually to the victim's advantage by not supplying a copy of the lease/hire agreement with the transfer of liability.
  • cohl123
    cohl123 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    So all they have sent is a link to an invoice of £10 and that letter attached as supporting evidence. No postal letter as yet.

    I think this happened previously and I was advised here to phone them to transfer over?
  • cohl123
    cohl123 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Put that was a PCN, not NTK? Assume may be a difference?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,788 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Get in touch with Lex and ask them exactly what they are doing - have they transferred liability, if not why not, and they need to get on with it, pronto.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • cohl123
    cohl123 Posts: 83 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Phoned them - they've transferred but said it takes some time.

    Tried arguing with me about the charge for fine vs speculative invoice, said it is a fine at the moment because it's a pcn - said when it's appealed to send confirmation to them and they'll refund. Last time I never got a confirmation I got a letter saying " my letter was noted" so not sure 1) if I can find that and send on for a previous refund and 2) whether Bay will.operate in a similar way and not be committal in the appeal.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,788 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    said it is a fine at the moment because it's a pcn 
    Further exposure of their lack of understanding. They're thinking 'Penalty Charge Notice' (issued by councils), whereas what you have is a 'Parking Charge Notice' (a speculative invoice, issued by private parking companies - who shamelessly exploit the confusion around the initials 'PCN').
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
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