Issue with Post completion work - still not on Land Reg Title Register

dimple_pie

Land_Registry said:

A few things to comment on here and which may help to narrow down available options to focus your approach. 

Your solicitor can request more time - see section 3 of PG 50 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/requisition-and-cancellation-procedures
Target do the demotion admin for a number of lenders inc Help to Buy (Homes and Communities Agency HCA as they were or Homes England as now) - they rely on the sellers solicitor to get the paperwork right and as with all redemptions to pay the agreed/correct amount. Your solicitor should ask for clarification from the other solicitor as to what the issue is and escalate matters within the firm if no reply or no satisfactory answer 

Other points re priority/protection with us. 

You can’t renew searches. You can only submit new ones. Moot point perhaps whilst your actual application to register is live 
If the application is cancelled then the option to apply for a Unilateral Notice exists to protect your interest 
There’s nothing to expedite at our end as it’s been processed but we can’t update the register. If the issue is with the redemption that needs to be resolved 

Thanks that's useful. I believe Target have now asked the sellers' solicitors for a copy of the completion statement. My further understanding is that the LR have extended cancellation of the application for a period of one month, this was following an approach in writing from our solicitors.
@user1977 - Rest assured that I'm not planning on doing anything further until the month is out ! 

loubel

That's a positive update. Hopefully it can be resolved within the next month.

EssexHebridean

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

TBG01 said:

dimple_pie said:

Tiglet2 said:

The legal interests of the applicant (i.e. you) are protected from the moment HM Land Registry receives the application, not when they process it, regardless of how long it then takes to complete.  Therefore you do have a legal claim on the property.

Your solicitor will need to continually renew their OS1 application and respond to any requisitions received by the date stated on the requisition to prevent the Land Registry from cancelling the application.

If you are not selling or remortgaging the property then Land Registry will not expedite the application because there is no pending transaction depending on the updated title.  In other words as far as LR are concerned, your application is not a priority.

You are probably aware that there are huge backlogs at Land Registry, not so much with already registered transfers of whole title, but certainly with other more complex titles, such as first registrations or transfers of part.

I imagine that the issue might be that Target have not yet removed their charge on the title and therefore the title cannot be updated until they do that first.  This is not something that could have been done until after completion as the monies from the sale would have been needed to redeem the HTB equity loan.

You can complain, but I am not sure what good it will do.  Your solicitor is waiting for the seller's solicitor to assist/provide documentation (from Target?) and Land Registry cannot update the title until Target/seller's solicitor have done their bit.  Since you can only complain about your solicitor and not the sellers' solicitor, I cannot see that your solicitor is at fault here.

Thanks for the reply. The application is due to be cancelled in two days time due to the failure to respond to their requisition. I’ve asked our solicitors to attempt to delay cancellation. 

My understanding is that if the LR cancel the application then we don’t have any claim on the property. 

What do you mean claim? Even if no Requisition had been raised, it would've still taken several months for the registration to complete. Which isn't an issue. You legally own the property from the day of completion. 

The issues no doubt lie with the sellers’ solicitors in that they’ve not been able to obtain confirmation from Target that their charge is removed. LR have also requested a better copy of the seller’s transfer form which, to date, our solicitors have not obtained from the sellers’ solicitors.

Which means sending out a new transfer to the client sign. Which isn't instant.

I really don’t think Land Reg delays are relevant - the issues are with the solicitors. Our solicitor needs to be ‘encouraged’ to ‘lean on’ the sellers’ solicitor. 

As above, the application would've still taken several months even if no Requistions had been raised. Where was your concern for "any claim" then?

As you correctly state I can’t complain about the sellers’ solicitors as I’m not their client.
So am I to accept that this may never be resolved ? As the buyer we must have some point of redress surely ? I can only think that’s the Ombudsman but I need to start a formal complaint first.

You have nothing to suggest this will never be resolved.

I asked our solicitors to escalate the matter with the sellers’ solicitor. They said they would but it appears now they haven’t despite saying it would be escalated to partner level.

Based on what? 

To sum it up. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and looking to blame the wrong person(s).

I’m minded to go down a more formal route.

In which case you should ensure you are pointing your formal finger at the right person, otherwise it’s all a waste of everybody’s time.

I'd point it at the sellers' solicitors but I'm not their client so....

…what do you think a complaint about your solicitor will achieve if they’ve done nothing wrong? 
<snip>

It will cause them huge amounts of stress - lead to them almost certainly facing issues when renewing professional indemnity insurance and in turn mean that already expensive insurance will be even more costly. And all as a result of what would be a vexatious complaint if by the OP's own acknowledgement it is not them who are failing here, but the seller's solicitors (although even then that's questionable if it is indeed Target who are not responding). 

OP - Your ownership of the property is not in any danger whatsoever - that is a complete misapprehension so not something to be concerned about. Once the application at the LR has lapsed it is a standard procedure to immediately renew the OS1R. (Priority is protected while there is an application in place).

How exactly do you feel your solicitors should force Target to reply? 

silvercar

EssexHebridean said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

TBG01 said:

dimple_pie said:

Tiglet2 said:

The legal interests of the applicant (i.e. you) are protected from the moment HM Land Registry receives the application, not when they process it, regardless of how long it then takes to complete.  Therefore you do have a legal claim on the property.

Your solicitor will need to continually renew their OS1 application and respond to any requisitions received by the date stated on the requisition to prevent the Land Registry from cancelling the application.

If you are not selling or remortgaging the property then Land Registry will not expedite the application because there is no pending transaction depending on the updated title.  In other words as far as LR are concerned, your application is not a priority.

You are probably aware that there are huge backlogs at Land Registry, not so much with already registered transfers of whole title, but certainly with other more complex titles, such as first registrations or transfers of part.

I imagine that the issue might be that Target have not yet removed their charge on the title and therefore the title cannot be updated until they do that first.  This is not something that could have been done until after completion as the monies from the sale would have been needed to redeem the HTB equity loan.

You can complain, but I am not sure what good it will do.  Your solicitor is waiting for the seller's solicitor to assist/provide documentation (from Target?) and Land Registry cannot update the title until Target/seller's solicitor have done their bit.  Since you can only complain about your solicitor and not the sellers' solicitor, I cannot see that your solicitor is at fault here.

Thanks for the reply. The application is due to be cancelled in two days time due to the failure to respond to their requisition. I’ve asked our solicitors to attempt to delay cancellation. 

My understanding is that if the LR cancel the application then we don’t have any claim on the property. 

What do you mean claim? Even if no Requisition had been raised, it would've still taken several months for the registration to complete. Which isn't an issue. You legally own the property from the day of completion. 

The issues no doubt lie with the sellers’ solicitors in that they’ve not been able to obtain confirmation from Target that their charge is removed. LR have also requested a better copy of the seller’s transfer form which, to date, our solicitors have not obtained from the sellers’ solicitors.

Which means sending out a new transfer to the client sign. Which isn't instant.

I really don’t think Land Reg delays are relevant - the issues are with the solicitors. Our solicitor needs to be ‘encouraged’ to ‘lean on’ the sellers’ solicitor. 

As above, the application would've still taken several months even if no Requistions had been raised. Where was your concern for "any claim" then?

As you correctly state I can’t complain about the sellers’ solicitors as I’m not their client.
So am I to accept that this may never be resolved ? As the buyer we must have some point of redress surely ? I can only think that’s the Ombudsman but I need to start a formal complaint first.

You have nothing to suggest this will never be resolved.

I asked our solicitors to escalate the matter with the sellers’ solicitor. They said they would but it appears now they haven’t despite saying it would be escalated to partner level.

Based on what? 

To sum it up. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and looking to blame the wrong person(s).

I’m minded to go down a more formal route.

In which case you should ensure you are pointing your formal finger at the right person, otherwise it’s all a waste of everybody’s time.

I'd point it at the sellers' solicitors but I'm not their client so....

…what do you think a complaint about your solicitor will achieve if they’ve done nothing wrong? 
<snip>

It will cause them huge amounts of stress - lead to them almost certainly facing issues when renewing professional indemnity insurance and in turn mean that already expensive insurance will be even more costly. And all as a result of what would be a vexatious complaint if by the OP's own acknowledgement it is not them who are failing here, but the seller's solicitors (although even then that's questionable if it is indeed Target who are not responding). 

OP - Your ownership of the property is not in any danger whatsoever - that is a complete misapprehension so not something to be concerned about. Once the application at the LR has lapsed it is a standard procedure to immediately renew the OS1R. (Priority is protected while there is an application in place).

How exactly do you feel your solicitors should force Target to reply? 

Im guessing by then pressurising the seller’s solicitor, who in turn can pressurise Target.

EssexHebridean

silvercar said:

EssexHebridean said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

TBG01 said:

dimple_pie said:

Tiglet2 said:

The legal interests of the applicant (i.e. you) are protected from the moment HM Land Registry receives the application, not when they process it, regardless of how long it then takes to complete.  Therefore you do have a legal claim on the property.

Your solicitor will need to continually renew their OS1 application and respond to any requisitions received by the date stated on the requisition to prevent the Land Registry from cancelling the application.

If you are not selling or remortgaging the property then Land Registry will not expedite the application because there is no pending transaction depending on the updated title.  In other words as far as LR are concerned, your application is not a priority.

You are probably aware that there are huge backlogs at Land Registry, not so much with already registered transfers of whole title, but certainly with other more complex titles, such as first registrations or transfers of part.

I imagine that the issue might be that Target have not yet removed their charge on the title and therefore the title cannot be updated until they do that first.  This is not something that could have been done until after completion as the monies from the sale would have been needed to redeem the HTB equity loan.

You can complain, but I am not sure what good it will do.  Your solicitor is waiting for the seller's solicitor to assist/provide documentation (from Target?) and Land Registry cannot update the title until Target/seller's solicitor have done their bit.  Since you can only complain about your solicitor and not the sellers' solicitor, I cannot see that your solicitor is at fault here.

Thanks for the reply. The application is due to be cancelled in two days time due to the failure to respond to their requisition. I’ve asked our solicitors to attempt to delay cancellation. 

My understanding is that if the LR cancel the application then we don’t have any claim on the property. 

What do you mean claim? Even if no Requisition had been raised, it would've still taken several months for the registration to complete. Which isn't an issue. You legally own the property from the day of completion. 

The issues no doubt lie with the sellers’ solicitors in that they’ve not been able to obtain confirmation from Target that their charge is removed. LR have also requested a better copy of the seller’s transfer form which, to date, our solicitors have not obtained from the sellers’ solicitors.

Which means sending out a new transfer to the client sign. Which isn't instant.

I really don’t think Land Reg delays are relevant - the issues are with the solicitors. Our solicitor needs to be ‘encouraged’ to ‘lean on’ the sellers’ solicitor. 

As above, the application would've still taken several months even if no Requistions had been raised. Where was your concern for "any claim" then?

As you correctly state I can’t complain about the sellers’ solicitors as I’m not their client.
So am I to accept that this may never be resolved ? As the buyer we must have some point of redress surely ? I can only think that’s the Ombudsman but I need to start a formal complaint first.

You have nothing to suggest this will never be resolved.

I asked our solicitors to escalate the matter with the sellers’ solicitor. They said they would but it appears now they haven’t despite saying it would be escalated to partner level.

Based on what? 

To sum it up. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and looking to blame the wrong person(s).

I’m minded to go down a more formal route.

In which case you should ensure you are pointing your formal finger at the right person, otherwise it’s all a waste of everybody’s time.

I'd point it at the sellers' solicitors but I'm not their client so....

…what do you think a complaint about your solicitor will achieve if they’ve done nothing wrong? 
<snip>

It will cause them huge amounts of stress - lead to them almost certainly facing issues when renewing professional indemnity insurance and in turn mean that already expensive insurance will be even more costly. And all as a result of what would be a vexatious complaint if by the OP's own acknowledgement it is not them who are failing here, but the seller's solicitors (although even then that's questionable if it is indeed Target who are not responding). 

OP - Your ownership of the property is not in any danger whatsoever - that is a complete misapprehension so not something to be concerned about. Once the application at the LR has lapsed it is a standard procedure to immediately renew the OS1R. (Priority is protected while there is an application in place).

How exactly do you feel your solicitors should force Target to reply? 

Im guessing by then pressurising the seller’s solicitor, who in turn can pressurise Target.

It sounds like a fair bit of pressure has already been applied from the sound of things. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make Target remove a charge, apparently! 

dimple_pie

silvercar said:

EssexHebridean said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

TBG01 said:

dimple_pie said:

Tiglet2 said:

The legal interests of the applicant (i.e. you) are protected from the moment HM Land Registry receives the application, not when they process it, regardless of how long it then takes to complete.  Therefore you do have a legal claim on the property.

Your solicitor will need to continually renew their OS1 application and respond to any requisitions received by the date stated on the requisition to prevent the Land Registry from cancelling the application.

If you are not selling or remortgaging the property then Land Registry will not expedite the application because there is no pending transaction depending on the updated title.  In other words as far as LR are concerned, your application is not a priority.

You are probably aware that there are huge backlogs at Land Registry, not so much with already registered transfers of whole title, but certainly with other more complex titles, such as first registrations or transfers of part.

I imagine that the issue might be that Target have not yet removed their charge on the title and therefore the title cannot be updated until they do that first.  This is not something that could have been done until after completion as the monies from the sale would have been needed to redeem the HTB equity loan.

You can complain, but I am not sure what good it will do.  Your solicitor is waiting for the seller's solicitor to assist/provide documentation (from Target?) and Land Registry cannot update the title until Target/seller's solicitor have done their bit.  Since you can only complain about your solicitor and not the sellers' solicitor, I cannot see that your solicitor is at fault here.

Thanks for the reply. The application is due to be cancelled in two days time due to the failure to respond to their requisition. I’ve asked our solicitors to attempt to delay cancellation. 

My understanding is that if the LR cancel the application then we don’t have any claim on the property. 

What do you mean claim? Even if no Requisition had been raised, it would've still taken several months for the registration to complete. Which isn't an issue. You legally own the property from the day of completion. 

The issues no doubt lie with the sellers’ solicitors in that they’ve not been able to obtain confirmation from Target that their charge is removed. LR have also requested a better copy of the seller’s transfer form which, to date, our solicitors have not obtained from the sellers’ solicitors.

Which means sending out a new transfer to the client sign. Which isn't instant.

I really don’t think Land Reg delays are relevant - the issues are with the solicitors. Our solicitor needs to be ‘encouraged’ to ‘lean on’ the sellers’ solicitor. 

As above, the application would've still taken several months even if no Requistions had been raised. Where was your concern for "any claim" then?

As you correctly state I can’t complain about the sellers’ solicitors as I’m not their client.
So am I to accept that this may never be resolved ? As the buyer we must have some point of redress surely ? I can only think that’s the Ombudsman but I need to start a formal complaint first.

You have nothing to suggest this will never be resolved.

I asked our solicitors to escalate the matter with the sellers’ solicitor. They said they would but it appears now they haven’t despite saying it would be escalated to partner level.

Based on what? 

To sum it up. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and looking to blame the wrong person(s).

I’m minded to go down a more formal route.

In which case you should ensure you are pointing your formal finger at the right person, otherwise it’s all a waste of everybody’s time.

I'd point it at the sellers' solicitors but I'm not their client so....

…what do you think a complaint about your solicitor will achieve if they’ve done nothing wrong? 
<snip>

It will cause them huge amounts of stress - lead to them almost certainly facing issues when renewing professional indemnity insurance and in turn mean that already expensive insurance will be even more costly. And all as a result of what would be a vexatious complaint if by the OP's own acknowledgement it is not them who are failing here, but the seller's solicitors (although even then that's questionable if it is indeed Target who are not responding). 

OP - Your ownership of the property is not in any danger whatsoever - that is a complete misapprehension so not something to be concerned about. Once the application at the LR has lapsed it is a standard procedure to immediately renew the OS1R. (Priority is protected while there is an application in place).

How exactly do you feel your solicitors should force Target to reply? 

Im guessing by then pressurising the seller’s solicitor, who in turn can pressurise Target.

This, pretty much.