Issue with Post completion work - still not on Land Reg Title Register

dimple_pie

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

TBG01 said:

dimple_pie said:

Tiglet2 said:

The legal interests of the applicant (i.e. you) are protected from the moment HM Land Registry receives the application, not when they process it, regardless of how long it then takes to complete.  Therefore you do have a legal claim on the property.

Your solicitor will need to continually renew their OS1 application and respond to any requisitions received by the date stated on the requisition to prevent the Land Registry from cancelling the application.

If you are not selling or remortgaging the property then Land Registry will not expedite the application because there is no pending transaction depending on the updated title.  In other words as far as LR are concerned, your application is not a priority.

You are probably aware that there are huge backlogs at Land Registry, not so much with already registered transfers of whole title, but certainly with other more complex titles, such as first registrations or transfers of part.

I imagine that the issue might be that Target have not yet removed their charge on the title and therefore the title cannot be updated until they do that first.  This is not something that could have been done until after completion as the monies from the sale would have been needed to redeem the HTB equity loan.

You can complain, but I am not sure what good it will do.  Your solicitor is waiting for the seller's solicitor to assist/provide documentation (from Target?) and Land Registry cannot update the title until Target/seller's solicitor have done their bit.  Since you can only complain about your solicitor and not the sellers' solicitor, I cannot see that your solicitor is at fault here.

Thanks for the reply. The application is due to be cancelled in two days time due to the failure to respond to their requisition. I’ve asked our solicitors to attempt to delay cancellation. 

My understanding is that if the LR cancel the application then we don’t have any claim on the property. 

What do you mean claim? Even if no Requisition had been raised, it would've still taken several months for the registration to complete. Which isn't an issue. You legally own the property from the day of completion. 

The issues no doubt lie with the sellers’ solicitors in that they’ve not been able to obtain confirmation from Target that their charge is removed. LR have also requested a better copy of the seller’s transfer form which, to date, our solicitors have not obtained from the sellers’ solicitors.

Which means sending out a new transfer to the client sign. Which isn't instant.

I really don’t think Land Reg delays are relevant - the issues are with the solicitors. Our solicitor needs to be ‘encouraged’ to ‘lean on’ the sellers’ solicitor. 

As above, the application would've still taken several months even if no Requistions had been raised. Where was your concern for "any claim" then?

As you correctly state I can’t complain about the sellers’ solicitors as I’m not their client.
So am I to accept that this may never be resolved ? As the buyer we must have some point of redress surely ? I can only think that’s the Ombudsman but I need to start a formal complaint first.

You have nothing to suggest this will never be resolved.

I asked our solicitors to escalate the matter with the sellers’ solicitor. They said they would but it appears now they haven’t despite saying it would be escalated to partner level.

Based on what? 

To sum it up. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and looking to blame the wrong person(s).

I’m minded to go down a more formal route.

In which case you should ensure you are pointing your formal finger at the right person, otherwise it’s all a waste of everybody’s time.

I'd point it at the sellers' solicitors but I'm not their client so....

loubel

As has already been confirmed, you don't stop owning the property if the land registry application is cancelled. Land Registry can't keep an application having around indefinitely waiting for paperwork so your solicitor will place a new priority search on the title to protect you while they gather the paperwork in order to resubmit the application. 

Making a formal complaint against your solicitor because the seller's solicitor/seller's lender are being too slow is not going to speed things up.  Have you asked them what has been done so far to try to get what is needed?

dimple_pie

loubel said:

As has already been confirmed, you don't stop owning the property if the land registry application is cancelled. Land Registry can't keep an application having around indefinitely waiting for paperwork so your solicitor will place a new priority search on the title to protect you while they gather the paperwork in order to resubmit the application. 

Making a formal complaint against your solicitor because the seller's solicitor/seller's lender are being too slow is not going to speed things up.  Have you asked them what has been done so far to try to get what is needed?

Of course. From what I can ascertain there’s been no real progress since the Land Registry raised the requisition months ago. How long do we give it, another six months ? a year ? two years ? What if want to sell the property next year ? 

user1977

dimple_pie said:

user1977 said:

dimple_pie said:

TBG01 said:

dimple_pie said:

Tiglet2 said:

The legal interests of the applicant (i.e. you) are protected from the moment HM Land Registry receives the application, not when they process it, regardless of how long it then takes to complete.  Therefore you do have a legal claim on the property.

Your solicitor will need to continually renew their OS1 application and respond to any requisitions received by the date stated on the requisition to prevent the Land Registry from cancelling the application.

If you are not selling or remortgaging the property then Land Registry will not expedite the application because there is no pending transaction depending on the updated title.  In other words as far as LR are concerned, your application is not a priority.

You are probably aware that there are huge backlogs at Land Registry, not so much with already registered transfers of whole title, but certainly with other more complex titles, such as first registrations or transfers of part.

I imagine that the issue might be that Target have not yet removed their charge on the title and therefore the title cannot be updated until they do that first.  This is not something that could have been done until after completion as the monies from the sale would have been needed to redeem the HTB equity loan.

You can complain, but I am not sure what good it will do.  Your solicitor is waiting for the seller's solicitor to assist/provide documentation (from Target?) and Land Registry cannot update the title until Target/seller's solicitor have done their bit.  Since you can only complain about your solicitor and not the sellers' solicitor, I cannot see that your solicitor is at fault here.

Thanks for the reply. The application is due to be cancelled in two days time due to the failure to respond to their requisition. I’ve asked our solicitors to attempt to delay cancellation. 

My understanding is that if the LR cancel the application then we don’t have any claim on the property. 

What do you mean claim? Even if no Requisition had been raised, it would've still taken several months for the registration to complete. Which isn't an issue. You legally own the property from the day of completion. 

The issues no doubt lie with the sellers’ solicitors in that they’ve not been able to obtain confirmation from Target that their charge is removed. LR have also requested a better copy of the seller’s transfer form which, to date, our solicitors have not obtained from the sellers’ solicitors.

Which means sending out a new transfer to the client sign. Which isn't instant.

I really don’t think Land Reg delays are relevant - the issues are with the solicitors. Our solicitor needs to be ‘encouraged’ to ‘lean on’ the sellers’ solicitor. 

As above, the application would've still taken several months even if no Requistions had been raised. Where was your concern for "any claim" then?

As you correctly state I can’t complain about the sellers’ solicitors as I’m not their client.
So am I to accept that this may never be resolved ? As the buyer we must have some point of redress surely ? I can only think that’s the Ombudsman but I need to start a formal complaint first.

You have nothing to suggest this will never be resolved.

I asked our solicitors to escalate the matter with the sellers’ solicitor. They said they would but it appears now they haven’t despite saying it would be escalated to partner level.

Based on what? 

To sum it up. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and looking to blame the wrong person(s).

I’m minded to go down a more formal route.

In which case you should ensure you are pointing your formal finger at the right person, otherwise it’s all a waste of everybody’s time.

I'd point it at the sellers' solicitors but I'm not their client so....

…what do you think a complaint about your solicitor will achieve if they’ve done nothing wrong? (I’m not saying that’s definitely the case, but you haven’t said anything which suggests they’ve done anything wrong)

Assuming that’s the case, a complaint will go through their internal complaints procedure, they’ll explain they’ve done nothing wrong (maybe at worst they haven’t done a good enough job in explaining the processes going on, which has led to your current misunderstandings), and if you’re still not satisfied it will then go to the ombudsman, who will no doubt come to the same conclusion. And by the time you get to that stage, chances are the registration will be sorted anyway.

If you want to progress things then in theory you could take action to enforce the completion undertaking (I assume there was one) given by the vendors solicitors, and/or the obligations of the vendor in their contract with you. But the costs and hassle involved mean that in practice people just carry on with the informal chasing until the likes of Target get their finger out.

YoungBlueEyes

Funny we just had something similar.

We moved in here last summer and, not being a seasoned buyer, I thought the reg was taking a while. I thought it all come through together (ha haa!). So a few weeks ago I emailed my sol to ask if everything was ok and why it wasn't registered, could I do anything etc. He said no it's all fine - as soon as the sale completes and land reg have the paperwork on their desk (so to speak) you're covered and they'll get to it when they get to it.

Which yesterday they did

housebuyer143

dimple_pie said:

loubel said:

As has already been confirmed, you don't stop owning the property if the land registry application is cancelled. Land Registry can't keep an application having around indefinitely waiting for paperwork so your solicitor will place a new priority search on the title to protect you while they gather the paperwork in order to resubmit the application. 

Making a formal complaint against your solicitor because the seller's solicitor/seller's lender are being too slow is not going to speed things up.  Have you asked them what has been done so far to try to get what is needed?

Of course. From what I can ascertain there’s been no real progress since the Land Registry raised the requisition months ago. How long do we give it, another six months ? a year ? two years ? What if want to sell the property next year ? 

I don't think there is anything wrong in expressing your unhappiness and asking them to detail exactly what they are doing to chase this, what they are waiting on and expected timescales. Sometimes it takes a complaint to get straight answers.

Tiglet2

dimple_pie said:

loubel said:

As has already been confirmed, you don't stop owning the property if the land registry application is cancelled. Land Registry can't keep an application having around indefinitely waiting for paperwork so your solicitor will place a new priority search on the title to protect you while they gather the paperwork in order to resubmit the application. 

Making a formal complaint against your solicitor because the seller's solicitor/seller's lender are being too slow is not going to speed things up.  Have you asked them what has been done so far to try to get what is needed?

Of course. From what I can ascertain there’s been no real progress since the Land Registry raised the requisition months ago. How long do we give it, another six months ? a year ? two years ? What if want to sell the property next year ? 

When you have a confirmed sale, your solicitor can ask the Land Registry to expedite it, but can only be completed if all the other queries have been attended to.

Land_Registry

A few things to comment on here and which may help to narrow down available options to focus your approach. 

Your solicitor can request more time - see section 3 of PG 50 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/requisition-and-cancellation-procedures
Target do the demotion admin for a number of lenders inc Help to Buy (Homes and Communities Agency HCA as they were or Homes England as now) - they rely on the sellers solicitor to get the paperwork right and as with all redemptions to pay the agreed/correct amount. Your solicitor should ask for clarification from the other solicitor as to what the issue is and escalate matters within the firm if no reply or no satisfactory answer 

Other points re priority/protection with us. 

You can’t renew searches. You can only submit new ones. Moot point perhaps whilst your actual application to register is live 
If the application is cancelled then the option to apply for a Unilateral Notice exists to protect your interest 
There’s nothing to expedite at our end as it’s been processed but we can’t update the register. If the issue is with the redemption that needs to be resolved 

silvercar

When we last bought there was some question on the value of some charges on the register of our property, our solicitor required and the other side agreed for the seller’s solicitor to undertake to remove charges on completion. This meant that, if there was some delay or fault in removing all the charges the sellers solicitor could be held responsible directly without them just passing the buck.

user1977

silvercar said:

When we last bought there was some question on the value of some charges on the register of our property, our solicitor required and the other side agreed for the seller’s solicitor to undertake to remove charges on completion. This meant that, if there was some delay or fault in removing all the charges the sellers solicitor could be held responsible directly without them just passing the buck.

Yes, that's standard procedure for any charges over the property - even with a normal mortgage, the charge can't be removed until after completion (because the lender won't release it until they get the money, and the vendor's solicitors can't send them the money until they get it at completion) so to cover the gap, there's an undertaking between the solicitors.

Like I said above, that's what the OP can seek to enforce - for which they are likely to want the cooperation of their own solicitor, rather than make them deal with a misguided complaint about their own behaviour...