F1RST windscreen NtD - query about VRN and appeal

auteur

Hi, as per comment below on another post I've been asked to start a new thread about my query. Thanks very much in advance.

Umkomaas said:

auteur said:

Had similar windscreen NtD from F1RST on a vehicle I am RK of, with VRN incorrect. However, on getting to day 25 and going to appeal online, it does not recognise the details (i.e. the wrong VRN on the windscreen ticket). So they must have corrected it in their systems. 

Presumably I should go ahead and use the actual VRN to make sure my appeal is logged - and I still have the defence that the NtD and NtK do not match? Is there any issue with 'revealing' the correct VRN from my end?

It doesn't sound that you've received a NtK yet.  They have between days 28 and 56 (from the parking event date) to issue it, so it will only be at the point of receipt that you can check whether the VRMs match. If they don't, the PPC can't transfer liability to the keeper. 

But, as this is @Bach_Off's thread, would you be good enough to open a new one of your own if you need further advice on your ticket please. 

That is right, I haven't received a NtK yet (and of course may never), I meant theoretically if one turns up as it's not past day 28 yet. I am trying to appeal online, but using the VRN provided on NtD it does not recognise it. I'm assuming if I use the actual VRN of the vehicle it will recognise the details and allow me to appeal (I have yet to actually try).

The advice I've seen is that you appeal with the VRN used on the NtD and not reveal the actual VRN, but in this case I cannot (unless I appealed by post which it's too late to do now really). So am I causing myself any problems by 'revealing' the actual VRN to get my appeal to be logged on their online system?

Fruitcake

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

What is the name of the PPC please?

If you get a NTK, it will (should) have the correct VRM because that is the VRM the PPC will use to obtain keeper details from the DVLA.
If the PPC uses the wrong VRM when they request keeper data from the DVLA, as per the NTD, you will never get a NTK.

It is widely believed that incorrect info on a NTD (wrong colour, make, one character of the VRM wrong) is a deliberate ploy in the hope that the motorist will 'phone up or appeal and blab about the driver's identity.

I suggest you wait to see if an NTK arrives as opposed to appealing now.

If no NTK arrives within 7 months, you have nothing to worry about.
If a NTK arrives with a different VRM to that which is on the NTD, then you should be able to kill this off at appeal, and have a valid reason for a complaint to the DVLA and the ICO.

B789

auteur said:

Hi, as per comment below on another post I've been asked to start a new thread about my query. Thanks very much in advance.

Umkomaas said:

auteur said:

Had similar windscreen NtD from F1RST on a vehicle I am RK of, with VRN incorrect. However, on getting to day 25 and going to appeal online, it does not recognise the details (i.e. the wrong VRN on the windscreen ticket). So they must have corrected it in their systems. 

Presumably I should go ahead and use the actual VRN to make sure my appeal is logged - and I still have the defence that the NtD and NtK do not match? Is there any issue with 'revealing' the correct VRN from my end?

It doesn't sound that you've received a NtK yet.  They have between days 28 and 56 (from the parking event date) to issue it, so it will only be at the point of receipt that you can check whether the VRMs match. If they don't, the PPC can't transfer liability to the keeper. 

But, as this is @Bach_Off's thread, would you be good enough to open a new one of your own if you need further advice on your ticket please. 

That is right, I haven't received a NtK yet (and of course may never), I meant theoretically if one turns up as it's not past day 28 yet. I am trying to appeal online, but using the VRN provided on NtD it does not recognise it. I'm assuming if I use the actual VRN of the vehicle it will recognise the details and allow me to appeal (I have yet to actually try).

The advice I've seen is that you appeal with the VRN used on the NtD and not reveal the actual VRN, but in this case I cannot (unless I appealed by post which it's too late to do now really). So am I causing myself any problems by 'revealing' the actual VRN to get my appeal to be logged on their online system?

But why are you rushing to appeal if you haven't even received a NtK yet? Are you hoping that the bribe of a "discount" means that you only have to pay a reduced sum? No one here will advise you to pay these scammers and most gullible victims are suckered in by the "discount" and end up being a part of the problem by funding the scammers and then being marked as "mugs" for future wringing out of their dosh by ex-clampers.

auteur

Fruitcake said:

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP.

What is the name of the PPC please?

If you get a NTK, it will (should) have the correct CRM because that is the VRM the PPC will use to obtain keeper details from the DVLA.
If the PPC uses the wrong VRM as per the NTD, you will never get a NTK.

It is widely believed that incorrect info on a NTD (wrong colour, make, one character of the VRM wrong) is a deliberate ploy in the hope that the motorist will 'phone up or appeal and blab about the driver's identity.

I suggest you wait to see if an NTK arrives as opposed to appealing now.

PPC is F1RST Parking. The VRN on the NtD is just a generic number and doesn't exist as a VRN.

Your advice is interesting as it obviously goes against the usual newbies thread steps, but I can see the logic as I otherwise have to input the actual VRN which is not on the NtD. Does that mean that there has to be another option to appeal provided by PPC if a NtK arrives?

Thanks

auteur

B789 said:

auteur said:

Hi, as per comment below on another post I've been asked to start a new thread about my query. Thanks very much in advance.

Umkomaas said:

auteur said:

Had similar windscreen NtD from F1RST on a vehicle I am RK of, with VRN incorrect. However, on getting to day 25 and going to appeal online, it does not recognise the details (i.e. the wrong VRN on the windscreen ticket). So they must have corrected it in their systems. 

Presumably I should go ahead and use the actual VRN to make sure my appeal is logged - and I still have the defence that the NtD and NtK do not match? Is there any issue with 'revealing' the correct VRN from my end?

It doesn't sound that you've received a NtK yet.  They have between days 28 and 56 (from the parking event date) to issue it, so it will only be at the point of receipt that you can check whether the VRMs match. If they don't, the PPC can't transfer liability to the keeper. 

But, as this is @Bach_Off's thread, would you be good enough to open a new one of your own if you need further advice on your ticket please. 

That is right, I haven't received a NtK yet (and of course may never), I meant theoretically if one turns up as it's not past day 28 yet. I am trying to appeal online, but using the VRN provided on NtD it does not recognise it. I'm assuming if I use the actual VRN of the vehicle it will recognise the details and allow me to appeal (I have yet to actually try).

The advice I've seen is that you appeal with the VRN used on the NtD and not reveal the actual VRN, but in this case I cannot (unless I appealed by post which it's too late to do now really). So am I causing myself any problems by 'revealing' the actual VRN to get my appeal to be logged on their online system?

But why are you rushing to appeal if you haven't even received a NtK yet? Are you hoping that the bribe of a "discount" means that you only have to pay a reduced sum? No one here will advise you to pay these scammers and most gullible victims are suckered in by the "discount" and end up being a part of the problem by funding the scammers and then being marked as "mugs" for future wringing out of their dosh by ex-clampers.

Hi, no I'm following the advice that is given to appeal on day 25/26 to tie up the PPC when they should be preparing to request RK details and sending a NtK. Is this not correct?

Umkomaas

auteur said:

B789 said:

auteur said:

Hi, as per comment below on another post I've been asked to start a new thread about my query. Thanks very much in advance.

Umkomaas said:

auteur said:

Had similar windscreen NtD from F1RST on a vehicle I am RK of, with VRN incorrect. However, on getting to day 25 and going to appeal online, it does not recognise the details (i.e. the wrong VRN on the windscreen ticket). So they must have corrected it in their systems. 

Presumably I should go ahead and use the actual VRN to make sure my appeal is logged - and I still have the defence that the NtD and NtK do not match? Is there any issue with 'revealing' the correct VRN from my end?

It doesn't sound that you've received a NtK yet.  They have between days 28 and 56 (from the parking event date) to issue it, so it will only be at the point of receipt that you can check whether the VRMs match. If they don't, the PPC can't transfer liability to the keeper. 

But, as this is @Bach_Off's thread, would you be good enough to open a new one of your own if you need further advice on your ticket please. 

That is right, I haven't received a NtK yet (and of course may never), I meant theoretically if one turns up as it's not past day 28 yet. I am trying to appeal online, but using the VRN provided on NtD it does not recognise it. I'm assuming if I use the actual VRN of the vehicle it will recognise the details and allow me to appeal (I have yet to actually try).

The advice I've seen is that you appeal with the VRN used on the NtD and not reveal the actual VRN, but in this case I cannot (unless I appealed by post which it's too late to do now really). So am I causing myself any problems by 'revealing' the actual VRN to get my appeal to be logged on their online system?

But why are you rushing to appeal if you haven't even received a NtK yet? Are you hoping that the bribe of a "discount" means that you only have to pay a reduced sum? No one here will advise you to pay these scammers and most gullible victims are suckered in by the "discount" and end up being a part of the problem by funding the scammers and then being marked as "mugs" for future wringing out of their dosh by ex-clampers.

Hi, no I'm following the advice that is given to appeal on day 25/26 to tie up the PPC when they should be preparing to request RK details and sending a NtK. Is this not correct?

If the NtD contained all the correct information, then the day 25/26 strategy would apply, but the incorrect VRM offers a different opportunity to exploit. 

Fruitcake

The advice in the NEWBIES to wait until day 25/26 only applies when you have an NTD.

At the moment you do not have an NTD, you have a piece of litter that was left on the keeper's car, therefore you cannot appeal.

auteur

Fruitcake said:

The advice in the NEWBIES to wait until day 25/26 only applies when you have an NTD.

At the moment you do not have an NTD, you have a piece of litter that was left on the keeper's car, therefore you cannot appeal.

Just to be clear, you're poking fun at the fact the VRN is incorrect on the NtD that was left on the vehicle, which renders it somewhat worthless?

Coupon-mad

I would appeal now, as the OP planned.  Better to not receive a NTK at all than wait for one.

auteur

Coupon-mad said:

I would appeal now, as the OP planned.  Better to not receive a NTK at all than wait for one.

Hi, thanks for your response. Bit tricky to know what to do as getting conflicting advice. If I appeal today, I would be using F1RST Parking's online appeal system and have to input the actual VRN, which they have probably used to log it on their systems, despite it being wrong on the NtD.

So, I suppose I just pose my original question again: do I stand to cause myself any problems by inputting the VRN myself to log the appeal? And if I do this, and I later receive a NtK with the correct VRN, does the defence stand that NtD and NtK VRN does not match, regardless of what I entered online?

Thank you

Fruitcake

Go with C-m's advice, but the appeal must be from the keeper without revealing the driver's details at all. 
The assumption must be that the driver found the piece of litter and passed it to the registered keeper.

In the appeal, state that you have never been the registered keeper of vehicle with *incorrect VRM* and therefore cannot be held liable, then follow with the rest of the appeal template in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky Announcement.

If you do receive a NTK then appeal again as keeper using the blue template and add a one liner that no NTD for a vehicle with the *incorrect VRM* was given, therefore the NTK is not PoFA complaint because if fails to identify the vehicle as required by Para 7 (2) (a) of the PoFA.

This is all after Plan A has been exhausted.