Update on kitchen refurbishment journey

Sistergold

insania_pendeat said:

Just a little update... All opinions wanted please 

I've met with a few kitchen fitters and now met one from Bark who have lots of positive verification and reviews and are over 7 years in business. Their pictures of work also look very good. The only thing is they also supply their own units and worktop and so far they're cheaper than IKEA, Howdens, Wren and DIY kitchens out of the water. 

Has anyone gone with a kitchen cabinetry they've not sourced themselves and if yes what guarantees do you advise I should have because all other companies guarantee kitchen from 10 to 25 years and what was and is your experience of these kitchens? 

Have you seen samples of what they can fit? Where do they get their cabinets from? Then if you are happy with it all then letting them source will be better I think than you doing it. 

Have you considered fitting it yourself? 

ThisIsWeird

Hi IP.

I wonder where they get their units from?! They surely don't make them, certainly not for less than IKEA/Howdens.

Anyway, as far as I can see, most kitchen carcases are more alike than they are different - as long as they are 18mm thick panels, once installed there will be little to choose between them in terms of strength and rigidity. I'd suggest the main difference could be with the quality of the melamine wrapping. 

Ditto with doors - if 18mm, then S&S shouldn't be an issue, but the 'finish' might.  I'd suggest the single biggest factor in kitchen quality will be the that of the facias.

So, would they give you a sample door and, say, a 300mm wall cabinet to look at?!

Everything else should be a known quality - eg Blum hinges ( soft-close of course...) 

And, ask them - how do their units compare with, say, Howdens' - 'as good', or better/not quite, and in what ways? (Howdens are known by a few on here). Listen to what they say, and see if it's credible.

As for the 20 to 25 year guarantees... What do you reckon these are really worth? Once a cabinet is screwed into place, it shouldn't move. So, what can actually go wrong? Water damage? Certainly, but I doubt that will be warranted - it'll be user error. Hinges pulling out? Yes, but - if they do - again the owner didn't notice they were coming loose and tighten them up to prevent this. 

I did claim once - successfully, and with no issue - for an MFI (bless) drawer handle which snapped through no misuse. That was it - the only issue. 20 years on, some of the door wrapping is now starting to lift in some corners, but - even if still warranted - I  doubt very much I'd have a 'claim' on what is likely 'wear and tear'.

Overall, this co sounds like a 'find', but carry out due diligence. Can they point to nearby satisfied customers, for example? Could you post their name on here so the forum sleuths can have a gander? And what warranty do they offer?

jonnydeppiwish!

I paid £3700 for this kitchen from Diy-kitchens.com - they are good quality and come fully assembled except the handles. The fridge, hob and microwave cost around £1250 from Samsung direct, and the oven was a Miele from my parents who only had it a year. 

Worktop was £450 from worktops direct. We had the wall taken out, RSJ, back door blocked up, new window, flooring laid all the way to the wall, new electrics, skimmed ceilings, new lighting and plumbing as changed orientation of the kitchen.

Total cost was around £9,500 and took about 2 weeks. I did have to pay for a strict engineer but that included an actual inspection for some cracks, an extension and garage conversion. Also paid for Building control. So all in, £11,000

Note that there are no wall cabinets - makes it too claustrophobic imo.

Also, all the cabinets are soft close, either pan drawer types or pull out internal drawers/corner units to access all the space.

This was Christmas 2022

insania_pendeat

Sistergold said:

insania_pendeat said:

Just a little update... All opinions wanted please 

I've met with a few kitchen fitters and now met one from Bark who have lots of positive verification and reviews and are over 7 years in business. Their pictures of work also look very good. The only thing is they also supply their own units and worktop and so far they're cheaper than IKEA, Howdens, Wren and DIY kitchens out of the water. 

Has anyone gone with a kitchen cabinetry they've not sourced themselves and if yes what guarantees do you advise I should have because all other companies guarantee kitchen from 10 to 25 years and what was and is your experience of these kitchens? 

Have you seen samples of what they can fit? Where do they get their cabinets from? Then if you are happy with it all then letting them source will be better I think than you doing it. 

Have you considered fitting it yourself? 

I'm going to ask them about their source but not sure I want to lose the 25 years or lifetime guarantee that comes with units from Howdens etc. My DIY expertise is basic at best and though I know how to follow instructions, I did tile the current kitchen, the kitchen will need extensive work like installing fire doors and I'm not confident in my skills at all.

But their previous jobs are very very good.

insania_pendeat

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi IP.

I wonder where they get their units from?! They surely don't make them, certainly not for less than IKEA/Howdens.

Anyway, as far as I can see, most kitchen carcases are more alike than they are different - as long as they are 18mm thick panels, once installed there will be little to choose between them in terms of strength and rigidity. I'd suggest the main difference could be with the quality of the melamine wrapping. 

Ditto with doors - if 18mm, then S&S shouldn't be an issue, but the 'finish' might.  I'd suggest the single biggest factor in kitchen quality will be the that of the facias.

So, would they give you a sample door and, say, a 300mm wall cabinet to look at?!

Everything else should be a known quality - eg Blum hinges ( soft-close of course...) 

And, ask them - how do their units compare with, say, Howdens' - 'as good', or better/not quite, and in what ways? (Howdens are known by a few on here). Listen to what they say, and see if it's credible.

As for the 20 to 25 year guarantees... What do you reckon these are really worth? Once a cabinet is screwed into place, it shouldn't move. So, what can actually go wrong? Water damage? Certainly, but I doubt that will be warranted - it'll be user error. Hinges pulling out? Yes, but - if they do - again the owner didn't notice they were coming loose and tighten them up to prevent this. 

I did claim once - successfully, and with no issue - for an MFI (bless) drawer handle which snapped through no misuse. That was it - the only issue. 20 years on, some of the door wrapping is now starting to lift in some corners, but - even if still warranted - I  doubt very much I'd have a 'claim' on what is likely 'wear and tear'.

Overall, this co sounds like a 'find', but carry out due diligence. Can they point to nearby satisfied customers, for example? Could you post their name on here so the forum sleuths can have a gander? And what warranty do they offer?

Ok, this gives me  a good idea for more checks. Their profile is LOMAS WOOD LTD | Bark Profile and Reviews and their work is impressive, the contractors are friendly, they answer queries on time and provide a 2 year guarantee on material is 2 years not not sure about workmanship, will confirm.

insania_pendeat

jonnydeppiwish! said:

I paid £3700 for this kitchen from Diy-kitchens.com - they are good quality and come fully assembled except the handles. The fridge, hob and microwave cost around £1250 from Samsung direct, and the oven was a Miele from my parents who only had it a year. 

Worktop was £450 from worktops direct. We had the wall taken out, RSJ, back door blocked up, new window, flooring laid all the way to the wall, new electrics, skimmed ceilings, new lighting and plumbing as changed orientation of the kitchen.

Total cost was around £9,500 and took about 2 weeks. I did have to pay for a strict engineer but that included an actual inspection for some cracks, an extension and garage conversion. Also paid for Building control. So all in, £11,000

Note that there are no wall cabinets - makes it too claustrophobic imo.

Also, all the cabinets are soft close, either pan drawer types or pull out internal drawers/corner units to access all the space.

This was Christmas 2022

Your kitchen is gorgeous and I love the oak combination. I'd initially not bothered with DIY Kitchens as no showroom in London but went back after other quotes and so far for 15 units including 3 tall units in my kitchen planner, I'm looking at £3,536 fso they are strong contenders.

I just went to WIckes and one thing I love, that maybe the others do but no one has mentioned it yet, is that my installer has to go through my design with them to ensure everything fits so does DIY Kitchens do this as well as I've heard you cannot return or exchange after deliver if there are no defects?

Also is your kitchen the Heritage Green as I'm going for a green kitchen?

ThisIsWeird

insania_pendeat said:

Ok, this gives me  a good idea for more checks. Their profile is LOMAS WOOD LTD | Bark Profile and Reviews and their work is impressive, the contractors are friendly, they answer queries on time and provide a 2 year guarantee on material is 2 years not not sure about workmanship, will confirm.

Well, I've never heard of them, but that's no surprise.

Glowing reviews, but they all seem to be on their site, and not, for example, on Google.

This 'Bark' thing is new to me too - a huge multinational organisation dealing in providing services.

Hopefully someone on here will know something about them - if their 'site is a honest reflection, then it all looks pretty good (if you can forgive the odd grammatical error... :-) )

jonnydeppiwish!

insania_pendeat said:

jonnydeppiwish! said:

I paid £3700 for this kitchen from Diy-kitchens.com - they are good quality and come fully assembled except the handles. The fridge, hob and microwave cost around £1250 from Samsung direct, and the oven was a Miele from my parents who only had it a year. 

Worktop was £450 from worktops direct. We had the wall taken out, RSJ, back door blocked up, new window, flooring laid all the way to the wall, new electrics, skimmed ceilings, new lighting and plumbing as changed orientation of the kitchen.

Total cost was around £9,500 and took about 2 weeks. I did have to pay for a strict engineer but that included an actual inspection for some cracks, an extension and garage conversion. Also paid for Building control. So all in, £11,000

Note that there are no wall cabinets - makes it too claustrophobic imo.

Also, all the cabinets are soft close, either pan drawer types or pull out internal drawers/corner units to access all the space.

This was Christmas 2022

Your kitchen is gorgeous and I love the oak combination. I'd initially not bothered with DIY Kitchens as no showroom in London but went back after other quotes and so far for 15 units including 3 tall units in my kitchen planner, I'm looking at £3,536 fso they are strong contenders.

I just went to WIckes and one thing I love, that maybe the others do but no one has mentioned it yet, is that my installer has to go through my design with them to ensure everything fits so does DIY Kitchens do this as well as I've heard you cannot return or exchange after deliver if there are no defects?

Also is your kitchen the Heritage Green as I'm going for a green kitchen?

Thanks, I wasn’t so sure about the colours but we love it! Yes, heritage green. They will check the plans for you to make sure you’ve not made any glaring mistakes.

My few bits of advice with kitchen planning are:

Make sure you orientate the cupboards to open away from the centre of the kitchen.

Make sure that if you have a corner unit with a bin unit next to it on the corner, that they open without catching. Well worth an extra filler panel to give an extra inch or so of space.

If you’re putting panel ends in between cupboards and/or appliances, save money and just use a length of plinth instead.

Check the plan many time 😂 

ka7e

Looking back at my DIY Kitchens plan for Dec 2019, the bill was £3240 for 11 units (no appliances or worktop). That was a bespoke colour and included the tall larder unit with inbuilt pan drawers, a narrow pull-out larder, corner and carousel, 2 x 1000mm pan drawer bases, pull-out bin unit and housing for integrated double oven, fridge/freezer and dishwasher. I remember I had quotes from Magnet, Benchmarx etc which were well over £5k at the time.

NMBKitchens

Just had a quick read over a few comments but the main thing that strikes me here is the kitchen company are beating quotes by Howdens and DIY kitchens etc with a high quality product?

Ive been in the kitchen industry over 20 years and i have never come across this. Honestly, never. We have our cabinets made by a local manufacturer and we certainly couldn't beat the likes of Howdens etc unless we ran at zero profit.

The main thing to check is you are getting absolute "like for like" quotes including all panels (can be expensive on their own) cornice, pelmets, plinths, any lighting, worktop material/quality. These things can add up and quickly.

I had a quick look at their Bark page and on one of the photos they have a wren plan on the wall so either these use Wren Kitchens and have some sort of discount structure in place with them or they happen to fit Wren kitchens also. Not knocking the company one bit by the way. If they can do high quality cabs cheaper than Howdens i shall be giving them a call myself haha.

Ikea Kitchens, you will find a fair few seasoned kitchen fitters that dont like Ikea kitchens because they were not made for the UK market and can take a bit more faffing about with to get the to fit in with plumbing/wastes etc. UK Kitchen cabinets come with the service recess in the back of the cabinet. As a fitter myself i wouldn't be keen on fitting one either. Doesnt mean i dont have the ability it simply means id rather fit a kitchen in half the time without having o cut bits out of the rears of the cabs. Common sense really.

Cost wise for the kitchen you will always find that the fitting costs the most. Depending on what needs doing. If you post the plan of the kitchen with all items listed i would happily do you a price comparison so you can at least see what the items should cost. Not pitching for the job by the way, i couldn't fit you in if i wanted to. Unless you wanted to wait until next year!