Tenants in Common - Probate

Richie7

Hi,

I realise there have been a few threads on this already, but most of have been closed so I was unable to reply on them.

My father recently passed away - as noted in another section - and I have just discovered too that my mum and dad didn't own their property as joint tenants, but tenants in common. My dad still wished his share of the property to pass to my mum however upon his death.

I found a helpful post in this thread from @Land_Registry and was wondering if anyone knows if this is still the case? As it's from 7 years ago.

Probate and tenants in common — MoneySavingExpert Forum

It looks to be, but not being an expert on this I'm not 100% sure. And a lot of sites like the Citizens Advice advise that you do need to go to probate for tenants in common.


Thanks as always if anyone can help.


Richie.

Sarahspangles

When you say he wished it to go to your mum, did he leave a will, or was he relying on the intestacy rules?

Richie7

Sarahspangles said:

When you say he wished it to go to your mum, did he leave a will, or was he relying on the intestacy rules?

He left a will yes, and would like his share to go to his wife who survived him.

Brie

I can't see any problems with this if the will states it goes to her.  All it means is that if your mom had died first she might have decided to leave her share of the house to you, any siblings, cats protection, whatever.

btw - sorry for your loss.

Land_Registry

Richie7 said:

Hi,

I realise there have been a few threads on this already, but most of have been closed so I was unable to reply on them.

My father recently passed away - as noted in another section - and I have just discovered too that my mum and dad didn't own their property as joint tenants, but tenants in common. My dad still wished his share of the property to pass to my mum however upon his death.

I found a helpful post in this thread from @Land_Registry and was wondering if anyone knows if this is still the case? As it's from 7 years ago.

Probate and tenants in common — MoneySavingExpert Forum

It looks to be, but not being an expert on this I'm not 100% sure. And a lot of sites like the Citizens Advice advise that you do need to go to probate for tenants in common.

Thanks as always if anyone can help.

Richie.

The thread and our post remains correct. If they were joint owners then probate is not required as the legal ownership has passed to Mum as the surviving legal owner. 

The TIC/shares relate to their beneficial ownerships, not the legal one. 

Mum can apply to update the register re the death and apply to cancel the form A restriction, assuming there is one, as appropriate - see PG 6 sections 3 and 7 for guidance and forms 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor

Richie7

Land_Registry said:

t remains correct. If they were joint owners then probate is not required as the legal ownership has passed to Mum as the surviving legal owner. 

The TIC/shares relate to their beneficial ownerships, not the legal one. 

Mum can apply to update the register re the death and apply to cancel the form A restriction, assuming there is one, as appropriate - see PG 6 sections 3 and 7 for guidance and forms 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor

Can I ask please what the form A restriction would have been? I'm not aware of any restriction and don't see why there would be one. If they were just TIC.

Or is it an automatic restriction that is applied?

Land_Registry

Richie7 said:

Land_Registry said:

t remains correct. If they were joint owners then probate is not required as the legal ownership has passed to Mum as the surviving legal owner. 

The TIC/shares relate to their beneficial ownerships, not the legal one. 

Mum can apply to update the register re the death and apply to cancel the form A restriction, assuming there is one, as appropriate - see PG 6 sections 3 and 7 for guidance and forms 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor

Can I ask please what the form A restriction would have been? I'm not aware of any restriction and don't see why there would be one. If they were just TIC.

Or is it an automatic restriction that is applied?

A form A restriction can be applied for and is the entry most people look for when they state that they are TIC. But you can be TIC without it. And even if applied for circumstances can change to make you joint tenants. 

I assumed your statement that the property was owned as TIC meant that the register referred to a form A restriction but clearly not. 

Form A - No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.
If there is no form A restriction on the register you can ignore section 7 of PG 6 and simply follow section 3 

scoot65

Land_Registry said:

Richie7 said:

Land_Registry said:

t remains correct. If they were joint owners then probate is not required as the legal ownership has passed to Mum as the surviving legal owner. 

The TIC/shares relate to their beneficial ownerships, not the legal one. 

Mum can apply to update the register re the death and apply to cancel the form A restriction, assuming there is one, as appropriate - see PG 6 sections 3 and 7 for guidance and forms 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor

Can I ask please what the form A restriction would have been? I'm not aware of any restriction and don't see why there would be one. If they were just TIC.

Or is it an automatic restriction that is applied?

A form A restriction can be applied for and is the entry most people look for when they state that they are TIC. But you can be TIC without it. And even if applied for circumstances can change to make you joint tenants. 

I assumed your statement that the property was owned as TIC meant that the register referred to a form A restriction but clearly not. 

Form A - No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.
If there is no form A restriction on the register you can ignore section 7 of PG 6 and simply follow section 3 

Since the deaths of both of my parents, their names have been removed from the register and I am now the sole proprietor. As we were all TIC the register has a restriction on it.

The restriction wording states "No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court."

There is no 'Form A' preceding the restriction wording. Does this lack of 'Form A' mean anything? Which forms are required to have the restriction removed?

Thanks/

Land_Registry

scoot65 said:

Since the deaths of both of my parents, their names have been removed from the register and I am now the sole proprietor. As we were all TIC the register has a restriction on it.

The restriction wording states "No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court."

There is no 'Form A' preceding the restriction wording. Does this lack of 'Form A' mean anything? Which forms are required to have the restriction removed?

Thanks/

That is a standard form A restriction. The words Form A don’t form part of the actual wording. 

If it’s no longer required as you are now the sole legal and beneficial owner then you can apply to cancel it using forms RX3 and ST5. See PG 6 section 7 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor

scoot65

Land_Registry said:

That is a standard form A restriction. The words Form A don’t form part of the actual wording. 

If it’s no longer required as you are now the sole legal and beneficial owner then you can apply to cancel it using forms RX3 and ST5. See PG 6 section 7 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor

Many thanks for the swift reply and the supplied link. Much appreciated!

Richie7

Land_Registry said:

A form A restriction can be applied for and is the entry most people look for when they state that they are TIC. But you can be TIC without it. And even if applied for circumstances can change to make you joint tenants. 

I assumed your statement that the property was owned as TIC meant that the register referred to a form A restriction but clearly not. 

Form A - No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.
If there is no form A restriction on the register you can ignore section 7 of PG 6 and simply follow section 3 

  Sorry for my late reply but thanks for your help with his.

  There is no rush for me to do anything with regards this is there? Unless of course the house was being sold for example. As trying to deal with everything else is quite enough for me at the moment.