Section 21 following rent tribunal

newsgroupmonkey_

theartfullodger said:

Does she have original tenancy?  If so and it's an "assured tenancy" then there is no s21.  Even if a later AST was signed, that later tenancy probably invalid, really still assured tenancy.

This is the point. Get some professional advice.
If it's an assured tenancy, she can't be kicked out as I see it. Mandatory grounds are basically those which are looking to be re-installed in the proposed act - landlord moves back in, repossession etc.

sourpuss2021

Has your Mum looked into how much Universal Credit she would be able to claim if she was paying the new rent?

If she lives alone it will be capped at the 1-bedroom rate and it will never be as much as £1750.  But it could still be something.  It will be determined by the Local Housing Allowance in her council area / postcode.  You can look it up.

caprikid1

"If it’s been the same landlord for 33 years you’d expect any mortgage has long been paid off!  "

You obviously don't know how most landlords fund property these days and how the taxation works.

There is this assumption the tenant is paying of the landlords mortgage, that rarely is the case which is bad news in reality for the tenant as the landlord continues to be exposed to interest rates on their costs.

All of that said, if the landlord has owned the property for 33 years he is most likely he has no mortgage but also it could be now his main source of retirement income.

sourpuss2021

caprikid1 said:

"If it’s been the same landlord for 33 years you’d expect any mortgage has long been paid off!  "

You obviously don't know how most landlords fund property these days and how the taxation works.

There is this assumption the tenant is paying of the landlords mortgage, that rarely is the case which is bad news in reality for the tenant as the landlord continues to be exposed to interest rates on their costs.

All of that said, if the landlord has owned the property for 33 years he is most likely he has no mortgage but also it could be now his main source of retirement income.

As I said I’m sure that spivvy and overstretched BTL landlords of the past 15 years are not paying off their mortgages.  The sooner these types are forced to sell up the better.

My landlord owns the property I rent outright though, and his parents owned it before him.   And it sounds like the OP’s mother’s situation is the same, the landlords own it outright.

Landlords who don’t have mortgages are likely to look at the rental yield but don’t need to consider mortgage costs.  So during a long tenancy the rents they charge may fall far behind the market.

Job13

sourpuss2021 said:

Has your Mum looked into how much Universal Credit she would be able to claim if she was paying the new rent?

If she lives alone it will be capped at the 1-bedroom rate and it will never be as much as £1750.  But it could still be something.  It will be determined by the Local Housing Allowance in her council area / postcode.  You can look it up.

The problem is, that isn’t the market rent in local area. It’s easily 500 too much. Rent tribunal said 1350 but deducted various things for all mum has done, inc fitting a kitchen. I think they just want her out for contacting council several years ago about rotten windows!

Job13

sourpuss2021 said:

As I said I’m sure that spivvy and overstretched BTL landlords of the past 15 years are not paying off their mortgages.  The sooner these types are forced to sell up the better.

My landlord owns the property I rent outright though, and his parents owned it before him.   And it sounds like the OP’s mother’s situation is the same, the landlords own it outright.

Landlords who don’t have mortgages are likely to look at the rental yield but don’t need to consider mortgage costs.  So during a long tenancy the rents they charge may fall far behind the market.

Exactly this! Plus, he’s a nasty man who treats people like crap!

_Penny_Dreadful

Job13 said:

sourpuss2021 said:

Has your Mum looked into how much Universal Credit she would be able to claim if she was paying the new rent?

If she lives alone it will be capped at the 1-bedroom rate and it will never be as much as £1750.  But it could still be something.  It will be determined by the Local Housing Allowance in her council area / postcode.  You can look it up.

The problem is, that isn’t the market rent in local area. It’s easily 500 too much. Rent tribunal said 1350 but deducted various things for all mum has done, inc fitting a kitchen. I think they just want her out for contacting council several years ago about rotten windows!

The rent tribunal essentially sealed your mother's fate.  As it is so easy to evict an assured shorthold tenant using the Section 21 route assured shorthold tenants don't usually go to tribunal over rent increases.  I'd say if your mum contacting the council years ago was the reason for wanting her gone the landlord would have issued a Section 21 before now.

It sounds like your mother has an assured shorthold tenancy but it would be worth doing some investigating to see if she's actually a assured tenant because that would render the Section 21 route pointless.  What condition is the property in?  There is a legal responsibility for landlords in England to ensure rental properties meet a minimum standard.  If your mum's home does not meet this standard she can use the repairs to get a stay of execution.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-tenants-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018

Do you know if she paid a deposit at any point?

macman

housebuyer143 said:

Job13 said:

silvercar said:

How much was the rent tribunal rent compared to what she was paying before? Is it affordable to pay a little more? It may be that the landlord has increased mortgage costs and can’t afford to keep the rent the same. It may be cheaper for your mum to stay than find a new rental with moving costs etc. 

landlord proposed a rent of 1750. Her rent had remained the same at 700 for 10 years due to poor condition of windows and storage heaters. It was only because council forced them to comply with EPC and replace rotten windows and upgrade heating system they spent money of the property. Rent tribunal determined rent of 1042 which took into account all the work my mum had done over the years. They said it was potentially worth 1350 if they did further work to it but they still believe it’s worth 1750!

That's quite a large increase! How is she supposed to find £1k a month, ridiculous.

Basically he is annoyed he was forced to spend tens of thousands upgrading his house and so now either blames your mum (not sure if she reported it or they just found out) or doesn't but wants to recoup all of his money  

Very sad tbh especially as that's been her home for so long. 

But the rent has been frozen for the last decade...during which the CPI has risen approx 30%. 
No sympathy for the LL though, he should have maintained the property and increased the rent each year in line with the CPI.

IAMIAM

This is why becoming a landlord is a nightmare. A person owns a property and wants it back.

The tenant spends every tom !!!!!! and harry trying to drag out the process with emotional 'revenge eviciton'.

Everything else is irrelevant in my opinion. 

It's a business agreement that can end when legally allowed to end. Its like buying a house and telling the seller you want to complete the purchase in 15 years and then put a date for exchange as 2050. Annoying. 

Lets hope the landlord doesn't go on strike because he's had below inflation rent rises for the last 33 years.

saajan_12

Job13 said:

Hi. My mum has been renting her house for 33 years. Her landlord wanted to increase her rent 150% last November. He wouldn’t negotiate so she appealed with rent tribunal and they determined a much lower rent, in line with market values. - okay, but still higher than the previous rent mum was paying? At least she did stay on the below market level for as long as she did. 

She’s been paying the new figure since January and had no communication from landlord until good Friday when he served her with a section 21 giving her the minimum notice. - as is his right.. deciding market levels is a science and an art, and it may not be sustainable for hte LL at that level. So he evicts and either sells up or looks for a tenant who is willing to pay the amount he wants. Its not just the 2 months notice, she can also wait through the court process and for bailiffs to come. 
We feel that trying to raise rent to a level she couldn’t afford that wasn’t market rent was first move in constructive eviction. Now because she came off better by appealing, this is like revenge eviction. - well no, its the LL exiting a business that is no longer sustainable for him, as is his right. She can't expect to keep rent to a level he can't afford. 
Does anyone know how long possession orders take? There’s no way she’ll be able to find new home in 2 months. - I'd expect a few months, anywhere from 3-12 moths. However many new LLs are looking for a tenant in the next 1-2 months, as they wouldn't want to keep the property open forever. If it takes materially longer, then maybe she's looking for something rare or underpriced and usually beyond her affordability. 
Thanks 

Comments in line. The LL is just exiting a now unaffordable business, and he'll have to abide by the notice periods and court process.