Air Source Heat Pump - Planning permission required!

born_again

matt_drummer said:

I think I may have found a solution to my problem.


Octopus Energy asked me yesterday if I had considered siting the heat pump at the front of our house.

I dismissed that straight away as I thought the council would reject it but having done some research I think it may now fall under permitted development.

As long as the heat pump is at ground level and at least 1 meter from my boundary then it is permitted development.

I will have no assessment position to worry about in terms of MCS noise tests.

The install will be easier.

There is no chance of upsetting any of my neighbours.

Positioning on the front of a house next to a busy road is actively encouraged by the Institute of Acoustics so it should be OK with the Environmental Protection Officer at Ipswich Borough Council.

https://www.cieh.org/media/7538/heat-pumps-briefing-note-professional-advice-note.pdf


Everybody will be happy I think?


The only issue is potentially somebody stealing the heat pump!

Odd on council not liking it?

Just shield it with some plants 👍

matt_drummer

born_again said:

Odd on council not liking it?

Just shield it with some plants 👍

Odd in what way?

I don't think they have any complaints on it being on the front of the house in plain view of everybody.

They are only concerned about anybody hearing it, and if it's in my back garden they have some concerns over its appearance from my neighbours point of view.

matt_drummer

OK, so having calmed down and got over my initial disappointment and frustration, these are my thoughts on the situation.

I actually agree with Ipswich Borough Council's views, the heat pump will be noisy, any heat pump I fit will make a noise that my neighbours will hear at times.

But, sooner or later, we all have to face up to the fact that we can't keep burning fossil fuels forever.

We all need to decide what is best for us, cleaner air, or some noise.

An air source heat pump is the most efficient way to heat a home in terms of energy consumption, they will use around a third of the energy of a gas boiler, an oil boiler or any form of direct electric heating.

They are are good thing for the environment in terms of any consumption.

I have read reports stating that air source heat pumps are capable of heating most homes in the UK, and I agree. Some homes are poorly insulated and will need improvements, but a poorly insulated home is poorly insulated whatever the heat source and will consume more energy than it needs to. The problem of insulation and heat retention needs to be addressed urgently.

Ipswich Borough Council and the local MP already acknowledge that the air quality in Ipswich is poor and needs improving.

In the absence of any alternative, they are going to have to make a choice between air quality and noise. In my opinion, they won't be able to refuse planning permission for air source heat pumps forever, they are going to have to  have a more relaxed attitude at some point.

Mstty

I wonder if having it at the front makes the house less attractive for sale to some.

Depends on the house/area I suspect most round here are unique one of properties and the ASHP are all at the rear or side. (Different council to Matt's)

matt_drummer

Mstty said:

I wonder if having it at the front makes the house less attractive for sale to some.

Depends on the house/area I suspect most round here are unique one of properties and the ASHP are all at the rear or side. (Different council to Matt's)

It may well put somebody off buying our house in the future, but I think i can safely say that that is not a concern for Ipswich Borough Council.

You could argue that an ASHP at the rear of our house would put a lot of people off buying our neighbours house.

It's early days for ASHPs in this country, as they become more common we will come around to accepting them both visually and the noise. This is what Ipswich Borough Council will have to accept in time.

Maybe, at some point, the rules will change and I would be able to move ours to my originally proposed location. Knowing my luck, that will happen the day after mine is installed!


I understand all the problems with these things, but they are the future and that is that as far as I am concerned.

ispookie666

I just caught up on the thread.  
I would suspect the objection will remain for the front of the house. In addition, the house elevation will be changing!
Unfortunately, the onus is on the applicant to show that the heat pump is below or equal to the ambient noise level. Having an acoustic enclosure might help mitigate the noise and reduce the level to the council-stipulated value. I would suspect this to result in a drop in performance. The council probably uses the lowest ambient noise level from other historic noise assessments.  

The councils are very hit-and-miss about the needs.  

I don't think the planning rules should be relaxed; this can significantly increase inconsiderate installations.  They could very well look into the Fast Track process.  

matt_drummer

ispookie666 said:

I just caught up on the thread.  
I would suspect the objection will remain for the front of the house. In addition, the house elevation will be changing!
Unfortunately, the onus is on the applicant to show that the heat pump is below or equal to the ambient noise level. Having an acoustic enclosure might help mitigate the noise and reduce the level to the council-stipulated value. I would suspect this to result in a drop in performance. The council probably uses the lowest ambient noise level from other historic noise assessments.  

The councils are very hit-and-miss about the needs.  

I don't think the planning rules should be relaxed; this can significantly increase inconsiderate installations.  They could very well look into the Fast Track process.  

They cannot object to it going on the front of a building as long as it is at first floor level or below, it is permitted development, it's the law.

They can only object if it fails the MCS noise test, that is if the noise level is above 42dB at any assessment position.

If it doesn't fail the MCS noise test they cannot refuse to grant planning permission, and in fact, planning permission isn't even required.

The Institute of Acoustics actually encourages installations on the front facades of buildings, especially when they face a highway.

briefing_note_-_heat_pumps_-_publication_11.pdf (ioa.org.uk)

I have been speaking with Ipswich Borough Council's Environmental Protection Officer over the weekend and he is working on the calculations for me as we speak, very good of him.

The truth is, we will all have to accept some noise from ASHP in the future if we want to stop burning fossil fuels, there is no alternative, the government even say it, they want to install 600,000 of these things a year, they will create some noise.

matt_drummer

ispookie666 said:

I don't think the planning rules should be relaxed; this can significantly increase inconsiderate installations.  They could very well look into the Fast Track process.  

How do you propose we all heat our homes if we can't burn fossil fuels and we cant make any noise?

We can't all be on night storage heaters as then off peak won't be!

ispookie666

Relaxing the rules removes any incentive for the manufacturer to aim for units with lower dB ratings.  
The installer and homeowner can install the units without consideration, resulting in a slippery slope and potentially very unhappy neighbours.  

Things should change, but I'm none the wiser about the solution.  But arguing that gas or oil boilers making noise will probably not win the crowd over.  

The permitted development rights for the front of the house is another grey area the councils can interpret as they wish!  You might need to site the outdoor unit to the side of the house, away from the front elevation. 

Maybe a petition should be started?

matt_drummer

ispookie666 said:

Relaxing the rules removes any incentive for the manufacturer to aim for units with lower dB ratings.  
The installer and homeowner can install the units without any due consideration, resulting in a slippery slope and potentially very unhappy neighbours.  

Things should change, but I'm none the wiser about the solution.  But arguing that gas or oil boilers making noise will probably not win the crowd over.  

Maybe a petition should be started ?

I agree, it shouldn't be a free for all and that is not what I am suggesting.

My noise assessment was half a decibel out, it has to be rounded up, so 43dB

Octopus tell me that other councils are accepting 49dB without any issue.

For a start, the treatment should be consistent around the country.

Secondly, making the application the same as that for a large extension is not helpful, a process is needed that is dedicated to air source heat pumps.

Thirdly, as pointed out by the CIEH and IOA, the noise assessment is based on the maximum volume quoted in a manufacturers brochure but these figures are not all obtained under the same conditions. Basically there is no control over what is quoted, it's not a true indication of what the maximum noise level will be, no comparison between manufacturers and models is possible at the moment, what appears to be a quieter heat pump may not actually be in reality.


What is needed is a way to site the quietest heat pump in the best location possible to suit everybody concerned, setting a hard arbitary noise limit that cannot be breached under any circumstances is not going to work.


The noise from gas and oil boilers already exists, and they are noisy, and that will be a noise that will be removed from our environments.

There is nobody to win over, it is already government policy and it will be happening.