Are Care Homes Allowed To Demand £400 Energy Bills Support Scheme Payment From Residents?

macman

billy2shots said:

Another thing I have only just thought of. 

Thankfully I don't deal with this due to my client group but it is not unheard of for family members to resent 'their inheritance ' being spent on care fees. 
I wonder if some relatives with POA/deputyship, would prefer to pocket this £400 and they begrudge handing it over to help heat their loved one. 

Very sad but unfortunately happening more and more according to peers (and judging by some posts on MSE') 

We are not debating whether it's morally right for the relatives to claim this and then voluntarily donate it to the care home-which might be a good thing.
What we are discussing is whether there is any contractual basis for the care home in this case to send, without any prior warning or discussion, an invoice which 'demands' that the relative make a claim.

billy2shots

macman said:

billy2shots said:

Another thing I have only just thought of. 

Thankfully I don't deal with this due to my client group but it is not unheard of for family members to resent 'their inheritance ' being spent on care fees. 
I wonder if some relatives with POA/deputyship, would prefer to pocket this £400 and they begrudge handing it over to help heat their loved one. 

Very sad but unfortunately happening more and more according to peers (and judging by some posts on MSE') 

We are not debating whether it's morally right for the relatives to claim this and then voluntarily donate it to the care home-which might be a good thing.
What we are discussing is whether there is any contractual basis for the care home in this case to send, without any prior warning or discussion, an invoice which 'demands' that the relative make a claim.

But that again falls into crystal ball territory. 
I'm not sure many would have the foresight to include a contract clause for reclaiming ad-hoc government grants for unforseen energy cost increase relief. 


Also remember that LA funded residents wouldn't necessarily have a contract. The contract should be between the provider and the LA. 

I had contracts with individuals solely around their small fee contribution (calculated  by other parties from their benefit entitlement). Very standard and nothing complicated or ambiguous. 
About 10 years ago, CQC and the LA asked me to remove these and I was told the contract is between the LA and myself. One contract. 

Now these LA contracts are not negotiable. You sign them or you do not do business with them. Every couple of years we receive amendments to certain parts of the contract and again, we sign or we no longer work with them. These contacts certainly don't include information if entitlement to one off grants. 

Fee rates. We now know the increase to cost of living. Asking for a fee increase from an LA is like banging your head against a brick wall. They don't care if my outgoings have spiralled. They only care and will negotiate fees if the resident's needs have changed and they require more care and support. 
If you can not evidence a needs change then you wait to be given an annual uplift (not guaranteed every year). This year is obviously extreme yet it looks like my LA is set to raise fees by 3%. 

3% with do diddly squat. 

If the person is purely self funding, that and only that will see a contract between individual and the care/nursing home. 


Please don't fall into the trap of thinking all homes/residents are the same. 

MultiFuelBurner

MultiFuelBurner said:

I would challenge the invoice for proof of the increase as per the link as they are not allowed to profit.

It may be the case you just send their accounts department that link and ask them for full details.

Still from page 1

If the care home has had to sign a new commercial contract for energy they should prove that to be able to claim some or all of the £400 EBSS payment from the residents.

lynnpin

We have now spoken to the Local Authority, Adult Care Finance Department, and their initial reaction is that this should not be happening.  For part funders like my mum the contract is with the local authority so they've asked for copies of the correspondence and will be passing it on to their Contract Compliance department to look into it further.

kingstreet

theoretica said:

As someone with a relative living in a home that we are seriously concerned may close, I do wonder what some people want to happen to care homes?  That the managers don't heat them?  That they increased prices earlier in line with energy bills (and wages and other rising costs) and without regard for whether people could afford them (and I suspect in many care homes a resident's share of the increase in costs this last winter would have been over £400)?

It would have made a lot of sense if the government had made it so that such payments did go to whoever actually paid the heating bills, but how much extra administration would that have caused?

This.

My wife is a Team Leader with a combined Health & Social Care Trust and she and her staff are having terrible problems finding care in our area. This is compounded by home closures and homecare providers handing back contracts because they simply can't find staff at the rates councils will pay.

born_again

billy2shots said:

Care home owner / manager here. 

I wasn't aware of the earlier link. I have made no attempt to reclaim the extra costs due to energy increases. 

For a 9 bed home my new energy contracts will mean a £22,000 increase in energy cost in the year ahead. 

All my service users (all non home owners) could potentially be entitled to this. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I will need to look into this. 

£22,000 of increased energy bills could be spent on staff pay increases instead of watching the sector disintegrate. 
£400x9 residents could directly be added to the pay increase I have already given to help further. 

Senior doctors were leaving the health sector early due to pensions becoming so large the tax implications didn't make it worth staying (or staying full time). Junior doctors striking for 4 days seeking a 35% pay increase. 

But it's good old social care being talked down again. Operating on a shoe string and when it looks like they may get a tiny bit of financial help, it causes issue. 

I hope those with an issue about care homes using this money also turned down government help that they are also entitled to?

Surely if a car home feels entitled to this £400. They should be applying on behalf of their residents. NOT expecting to bill their residents family to claim.

Note this is not aimed at you. Just quoting this post. 

billy2shots

born_again said:

billy2shots said:

Care home owner / manager here. 

I wasn't aware of the earlier link. I have made no attempt to reclaim the extra costs due to energy increases. 

For a 9 bed home my new energy contracts will mean a £22,000 increase in energy cost in the year ahead. 

All my service users (all non home owners) could potentially be entitled to this. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I will need to look into this. 

£22,000 of increased energy bills could be spent on staff pay increases instead of watching the sector disintegrate. 
£400x9 residents could directly be added to the pay increase I have already given to help further. 

Senior doctors were leaving the health sector early due to pensions becoming so large the tax implications didn't make it worth staying (or staying full time). Junior doctors striking for 4 days seeking a 35% pay increase. 

But it's good old social care being talked down again. Operating on a shoe string and when it looks like they may get a tiny bit of financial help, it causes issue. 

I hope those with an issue about care homes using this money also turned down government help that they are also entitled to?

Surely if a car home feels entitled to this £400. They should be applying on behalf of their residents. NOT expecting to bill their residents family to claim.

Note this is not aimed at you. Just quoting this post. 

2 potential points

I can only presume the relatives are not being billed. The person in care is being billed. The relative might only be managing that person's money (hence my earlier  post about inheritance being spent).

Secondly, it appears from earlier posts that care homes can't claim. Only individuals  or those managing their finances on their behalf.

billy2shots

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6437343/how-to-protect-parents-assets-and-avoid-deprivation-of-assets




This weeks, how can I protect my inheritance and avoid my parent paying for care question. 

Yet it's those pesky horrible care homes at it again. 

lynnpin

I have spoken to the local authority Adult Care Finance Department today and the gentleman confirmed that the care home have no legal right to expect residents to hand over the Energy Support payment to them.

Because they also enclosed an invoice for £400, he said there is no legal basis for them to chase up that invoice if it is not paid.

If the care home feels they are not getting enough money to pay their bills due to the cost of living crisis then they need to go back to the local authority and negotiate better terms which are, in any case, under constant review.

Residents can transfer the money to the care home if they wish but are under no obligation to do so.

elsien

Thank you for coming back to update. That will be useful to know for anyone else who might find themselves in a similar situation.