Are Care Homes Allowed To Demand £400 Energy Bills Support Scheme Payment From Residents?

elsien

lynnpin said:

Thanks everyone.  I appreciate all your views.  It seems about 50:50 on whether you think this is right or wrong.

I don't remember getting a contract as it was part funded by the local authority and part funded by mum's pension but we were assured that there would be no top-up fees, which is what I would call this.

Every April the charges go up so presumably the care home will factor the higher energy costs into the reviewed price so to my mind they will be charging twice?

Any top up fees to the local authority rate would be for a third-party to top up if they were in agreement, for someone who is local authority funded.

It is normal for someone’s pension to be taken into account in the financial assessment when they are not self-funding. 

 The answers so far presume your mother is a self-funder when it’s possible this isn’t the case if the local authority are paying for her minus her pension.

You haven’t said whether your mother still has a property to which the money would apply? If not is she even eligible for it anyway? I think that’s the point I would explore before getting into a debate with the care home about it given that the link posted earlier is for people who are self-funding. 

macman

Why are they asking the OP to 'claim' a grant which will have already been applied to mum's electricity account, if she still owns the property and has an account in her name?
Perhaps the OP could post a suitably redacted copy of the wording of the letter, because if they have really asked her to claim this, it's incredibly badly phrased. Are we sure this relates to the EBSS, and not to one of the other support schemes given to pensioners? The OP referred to the 'energy bills support grant', which is ambiguous. The EBSS was a rebate, not a grant.

Shedman

macman said:

Why are they asking the OP to 'claim' a grant which will have already been applied to mum's electricity account, if she still owns the property and has an account in her name?
Perhaps the OP could post a suitably redacted copy of the wording of the letter, because if they have really asked her to claim this, it's incredibly badly phrased. Are we sure this relates to the EBSS, and not to one of the other support schemes given to pensioners? The OP referred to the 'energy bills support grant', which is ambiguous. The EBSS was a rebate, not a grant.

There was an fairly recent extension to the EBSS that included some that had been previously omitted from the main scheme, e.g. self funding care home residents, certain classes of renters, and it was a lump sum £400 payment.  We applied on behalf of MiL who is a self funder and she received it.  

In terms of the care home claiming it then as there is nothing in her contract that allows for them to invoice her for this particular form of adhoc charge (increased heating/utility costs) then they are not able to claim it from her and, given the carehome owner has just acquired a Lamborghini Urus, I reckon she needs it more than them anyway😅....although to be fair to the home they are only upping her fees by 5% for the next year when we were thinking that with staff, food and utility cost increases they'd put it up far more than that.

lynnpin

JohnPo said:

Yep - the contract is almost certainly with the local authority if in any way they are funding this and taking deductions from your mother's retirement income. The local authority (LA) might be quite interested in you informing them that the care home are demanding a fee on a spurious basis over and above the contract they hold with the LA!

It is not a matter of whether it is right or wrong it is about the contractual position your mother is in - the LA presumably made the care arrangements - let them look and decide what to do with this payment demand.

I think I will contact the local authority and see what they have to say.

t0rt0ise said:

Read here.. it is allowed. 

https://www.careengland.org.uk/energy-bill-support-scheme-for-local-authority-and-self-funded-residents/

I had already seen this but my interpretation was "how can we get this money off our residents" and not that they were legally entitled to it, otherwise the government would have paid them direct and not insisted the payment went only to the residents.

lynnpin

elsien said:

Any top up fees to the local authority rate would be for a third-party to top up if they were in agreement, for someone who is local authority funded.

It is normal for someone’s pension to be taken into account in the financial assessment when they are not self-funding. 

 The answers so far presume your mother is a self-funder when it’s possible this isn’t the case if the local authority are paying for her minus her pension.

You haven’t said whether your mother still has a property to which the money would apply? If not is she even eligible for it anyway? I think that’s the point I would explore before getting into a debate with the care home about it given that the link posted earlier is for people who are self-funding. 

I have always lived in the family home and now pay all the bills so have received the support grant automatically myself.  Although I knew about care home residents now qualifying for the support grant I didn't think mum would be entitled but apparently she is.

Yes, the local authority pay minus her pension.

.macman said:

Why are they asking the OP to 'claim' a grant which will have already been applied to mum's electricity account, if she still owns the property and has an account in her name?
Perhaps the OP could post a suitably redacted copy of the wording of the letter, because if they have really asked her to claim this, it's incredibly badly phrased. Are we sure this relates to the EBSS, and not to one of the other support schemes given to pensioners? The OP referred to the 'energy bills support grant', which is ambiguous. The EBSS was a rebate, not a grant.

This is the EBSS.

billy2shots

Care home owner / manager here. 

I wasn't aware of the earlier link. I have made no attempt to reclaim the extra costs due to energy increases. 

For a 9 bed home my new energy contracts will mean a £22,000 increase in energy cost in the year ahead. 

All my service users (all non home owners) could potentially be entitled to this. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I will need to look into this. 

£22,000 of increased energy bills could be spent on staff pay increases instead of watching the sector disintegrate. 
£400x9 residents could directly be added to the pay increase I have already given to help further. 

Senior doctors were leaving the health sector early due to pensions becoming so large the tax implications didn't make it worth staying (or staying full time). Junior doctors striking for 4 days seeking a 35% pay increase. 

But it's good old social care being talked down again. Operating on a shoe string and when it looks like they may get a tiny bit of financial help, it causes issue. 

I hope those with an issue about care homes using this money also turned down government help that they are also entitled to?

HampshireH

billy2shots said:

Care home owner / manager here. 

I wasn't aware of the earlier link. I have made no attempt to reclaim the extra costs due to energy increases. 

For a 9 bed home my new energy contracts will mean a £22,000 increase in energy cost in the year ahead. 

All my service users (all non home owners) could potentially be entitled to this. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I will need to look into this. 

£22,000 of increased energy bills could be spent on staff pay increases instead of watching the sector disintegrate. 
£400x9 residents could directly be added to the pay increase I have already given to help further. 

Senior doctors were leaving the health sector early due to pensions becoming so large the tax implications didn't make it worth staying (or staying full time). Junior doctors striking for 4 days seeking a 35% pay increase. 

But it's good old social care being talked down again. Operating on a shoe string and when it looks like they may get a tiny bit of financial help, it causes issue. 

I hope those with an issue about care homes using this money also turned down government help that they are also entitled to?

Not sure anyone took issue with care homes using the money as such.

But without explanation of increased costs is a bit off.

If you do the above it would be alongside an explanation as to why I would assume. You would also presumably be allowed to as part of the contract. That would make perfect sense. It doesn't seem like the OPs relative receive any information to support his request and therefore without this it seemed a bit odd

MWT

billy2shots said:

For a 9 bed home my new energy contracts will mean a £22,000 increase in energy cost in the year ahead. 

All my service users (all non home owners) could potentially be entitled to this. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I will need to look into this. 

£22,000 of increased energy bills could be spent on staff pay increases instead of watching the sector disintegrate. 
£400x9 residents could directly be added to the pay increase I have already given to help further. 

If your energy costs for the last 6 months have already increased beyond the amount you had built into your costs to your service users then it would seem legitimate to encourage them to claim the £400 and pass those amounts on to you, but if your contract has only just changed then you will be building those costs into your charges for the year ahead and these £400 claims are not intended to cover those costs, so the money should remain in the hands of your service users I would have thought...

billy2shots

MWT said:

billy2shots said:

For a 9 bed home my new energy contracts will mean a £22,000 increase in energy cost in the year ahead. 

All my service users (all non home owners) could potentially be entitled to this. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I will need to look into this. 

£22,000 of increased energy bills could be spent on staff pay increases instead of watching the sector disintegrate. 
£400x9 residents could directly be added to the pay increase I have already given to help further. 

If your energy costs for the last 6 months have already increased beyond the amount you had built into your costs to your service users then it would seem legitimate to encourage them to claim the £400 and pass those amounts on to you, but if your contract has only just changed then you will be building those costs into your charges for the year ahead and these £400 claims are not intended to cover those costs, so the money should remain in the hands of your service users I would have thought...

That makes zero sense. 

The grant is for energy support (the rising cost of). 

My servy users have zero increased energy cost. 
Why would they be entitled to this money?

Either the care home is entitled or nobody is. The service user getting money specifically for increased energy costs that they have not incurred would be wrong imho. Better to stay in the governments pocket in that situation. 

macman

Why is the care home 'entitled'? The rebate was intended for the homeowner or electricity account holder. 
The fact that they have been awarded this rebate does not entitle the care home or anyone else to 'claim' it from them, unless the contract or legislation allows it.
If the care home resident came up with a Premium Bonds win, does that entitle the care home to claim the winnings? I think not.