Are Care Homes Allowed To Demand £400 Energy Bills Support Scheme Payment From Residents?

elsien

Except the OPs mother is no longer the electricity account holder and not living in the property or paying the bills for it. So the premium bond analogy doesn't hold. Although a large win would likely be taken into account in any local authority financial assessment. 
I'm interested in the part of the link where it says self-funders "may" be eligible because I can't find the qualifying information that would be used in a decision rule them in or out. 

pochase

I can see a logic that the party that pays the highe renrgy cost should benefit from the EBSS, but the waay it is done by government does not make any sense.

If the care home should benefit why not let the care home apply for the grant for all residents? It does not male any sense at all to give the task of applying for the grant to the residents when only the carehome benfits directly. On the other hand the residents should benefit inderictly by the increase being £400 less due to the payment.

So the bill the OPs mother got seems to be instead of an additional increase you are paying £400 now, which you can do out of your pocket, or by applying for the grant.

While I don't agree with the way it is done I can see where the care home is coming from. How many would apply for the grant if they don't benefit directly from it?

MWT

billy2shots said:

That makes zero sense. 

The grant is for energy support (the rising cost of). 

My servy users have zero increased energy cost. 
Why would they be entitled to this money?

Either the care home is entitled or nobody is. The service user getting money specifically for increased energy costs that they have not incurred would be wrong imho. Better to stay in the governments pocket in that situation. 

Actually having increased costs was never a requirement to receive the £400 support, many people will have gone through the relevant 6 month period with no increases at all if they were on a fixed price tariff...

You are a business, you were almost certainly on a fixed price contract for some or even all of the relevant period, and as a business you will have priced your arrangements with your service users accordingly...

So either you did experience an energy price rise which you had not factored into your pricing, in which case it seems entirely reasonable to recover the £400 (subject to contract of course), or you didn't, in which case you have no grounds for recovering the £400 just so you can subsidise your salary bill...

MWT

elsien said:

Except the OPs mother is no longer the electricity account holder and not living in the property or paying the bills for it.

The energy bills are a component of the service fee that is paid at the location she currently resides, this isn't about any other home she may still own, and doesn't require her name to be on an energy account.

jbuchanangb

I have always thought it odd that the Winter Fuel Allowance is payable to care home residents without any obligation to pass it on to the management of the care home. I would see this eligibility of self funding care home residents to receive the EBSS in the same category. Entitled to receive it, but no obligation to pass it on to the care home management.

lynnpin

I am still awaiting a reply from the local authority about this and will let you know what their response is.

billy2shots

MWT said:

billy2shots said:

That makes zero sense. 

The grant is for energy support (the rising cost of). 

My servy users have zero increased energy cost. 
Why would they be entitled to this money?

Either the care home is entitled or nobody is. The service user getting money specifically for increased energy costs that they have not incurred would be wrong imho. Better to stay in the governments pocket in that situation. 

Actually having increased costs was never a requirement to receive the £400 support, many people will have gone through the relevant 6 month period with no increases at all if they were on a fixed price tariff...

You are a business, you were almost certainly on a fixed price contract for some or even all of the relevant period, and as a business you will have priced your arrangements with your service users accordingly...

So either you did experience an energy price rise which you had not factored into your pricing, in which case it seems entirely reasonable to recover the £400 (subject to contract of course), or you didn't, in which case you have no grounds for recovering the £400 just so you can subsidise your salary bill...

In your last 2 posts you are suggesting we as care homes can see the future and should have set our fees according to this recent rise. 

Does that mean everyone should have seen this coming and saved money. So they shouldn't have any government help?

Or is it only care home owners with this power to see the future. 

I can factor in increases to bills but I can not forsee a 600% rise in commercial energy 

MWT

billy2shots said:

MWT said:

billy2shots said:

That makes zero sense. 

The grant is for energy support (the rising cost of). 

My servy users have zero increased energy cost. 
Why would they be entitled to this money?

Either the care home is entitled or nobody is. The service user getting money specifically for increased energy costs that they have not incurred would be wrong imho. Better to stay in the governments pocket in that situation. 

Actually having increased costs was never a requirement to receive the £400 support, many people will have gone through the relevant 6 month period with no increases at all if they were on a fixed price tariff...

You are a business, you were almost certainly on a fixed price contract for some or even all of the relevant period, and as a business you will have priced your arrangements with your service users accordingly...

So either you did experience an energy price rise which you had not factored into your pricing, in which case it seems entirely reasonable to recover the £400 (subject to contract of course), or you didn't, in which case you have no grounds for recovering the £400 just so you can subsidise your salary bill...

In your last 2 posts you are suggesting we as care homes can see the future and should have set our fees according to this recent rise. 

Does that mean everyone should have seen this coming and saved money. So they shouldn't have any government help?

Or is it only care home owners with this power to see the future. 

I can factor in increases to bills but I can not forsee a 600% rise in commercial energy 

You are misrepresenting what I have said...

As a commercial energy user you are most likely on a fixed contract which can often cover multiple years, that does not require any special skill to predict the future as your contract dates fix your energy prices, and hence your budgeted energy cost component of your fees for the period of your contract.

As I have already said, if that is the case for you over the last 6-12 months then you have no grounds for claiming the £400 from your service users...

If your previous energy contract ended and you had to deal with higher energy costs that were not built into the prices your service users were paying over the last 6 months, and you did not already bill your service users directly for those additional costs, then I see your case for claiming the £400 from them...

What you should not be seeking to do is require the £400 from your service users for costs that were already build into their existing contracts. The aim of these payments is to reduce the impact of energy bills on consumers, not deliver cash to 'resellers' of energy which they could then use to offset future costs from the end of March onwards...

No crystal ball required for any of this... 

theoretica

As someone with a relative living in a home that we are seriously concerned may close, I do wonder what some people want to happen to care homes?  That the managers don't heat them?  That they increased prices earlier in line with energy bills (and wages and other rising costs) and without regard for whether people could afford them (and I suspect in many care homes a resident's share of the increase in costs this last winter would have been over £400)?

It would have made a lot of sense if the government had made it so that such payments did go to whoever actually paid the heating bills, but how much extra administration would that have caused?

billy2shots

Another thing I have only just thought of. 

Thankfully I don't deal with this due to my client group but it is not unheard of for family members to resent 'their inheritance ' being spent on care fees. 
I wonder if some relatives with POA/deputyship, would prefer to pocket this £400 and they begrudge handing it over to help heat their loved one. 

Very sad but unfortunately happening more and more according to peers (and judging by some posts on MSE')