‘Grey imports’

keepitlegal

I bought a second hand camera in October 2022, I discovered it is a ‘grey import’, I was not informed of this in the shop, I returned with the camera yesterday, I explained the problem, there was also a problem with the serial number, the salesman initially agreed that I’d been treated unfairly, he needed to contact head office, when he returned is manner was totally different, eventually he said I could not have a refund.
The camera has no serial number on it, the box does not match the serial number of the camera, the serial number on the receipt is not the serial number of the camera.
I returned the camera to Nikon, they had it for over a month, it was Nikon UK who found the discrepancy with the serial numbers, they informed me.
I understand it is illegal to sell imported grey goods into Great Britain, but does this extend to secondhand sales? 

tightauldgit

When you say grey import what exactly do you mean as there seem to be different definitions doing the rounds. 

Is the camera a genuine Nikon camera but sourced from a non-UK market? In which case I don't think the shop has done anything wrong and I don't think that's illegal.

Or do you mean the camera is not a genuine Nikon (even if it came out of the same factory) but just labelled as such so effectively just a good counterfeit? Then I believe the shop would be in the wrong here - even if it was unknowingly.

Of course there's also other considerations such as the shop potentially claiming that you've switched the cameras to a fake? So I'm not sure how much of an open and shut case it would be. 

cymruchris

keepitlegal said:

I understand it is illegal to sell imported grey goods into Great Britain, but does this extend to secondhand sales? 

It's not illegal. There are a number of online retailers that have supplied grey imports for years, some of the companies even have a UK base. It's illegal to avoid taxes and import duties where appropriate, but it's not illegal to sell cameras from Hong Kong and the like.

I'm not familiar with the Nikon brand, but most cameras have a label on the underside of the body showing the serial number - are you saying that the label has been removed? Or that the label is there, but no serial number in the space allocated to it?

As it was purchased second hand - the source country of the camera's original market doesn't really bear relevance, as it was advertised no doubt as a 'Nikon Camera' and you've bought a 'Nikon Camera'.

If the camera is out of warranty - whether originally sold in the UK or overseas - the repairs are still chargeable by the manufacturer. (There are also several specialist repairers that can often be cheaper than the manufacturers themselves).

Is there an actual fault with the camera? What made you return it to Nikon? What made them keep it for a month? Was there no guarantee with the shop you bought it from?

molerat

It would only be illegal if it did not comply with UK safety regulations.  The only rights you have are your consumer rights against the seller which would include any misrepresentation if they stated it was a UK market model and carried any form of manufacturer warranty.

tightauldgit

cymruchris said:

keepitlegal said:

I understand it is illegal to sell imported grey goods into Great Britain, but does this extend to secondhand sales? 

It's not illegal. 

If you do some googling I think the source of confusion is that 'grey' seems to have two different uses.

1. An actual genuine authorised Nikon product imported to the UK through non-standard channels - legal. For example, someone is able to pick up a cheap job lot of Nikon cameras in Greece and ship them to the UK then sells them legally but not authorized by Nikon. Nikon still get paid for the cameras but by whatever route they got paid in Greece.

2. A third party manufacturer of a product runs off a few extra without the consent of the brand and flogs them through whatever channels. Although it would be branded Nikon this isn't a genuine Nikon product and Nikon never got paid for it. So it's effectively a high-class counterfeit. These are illegal to sell. 

Both these cases seem to be called "grey"  

keepitlegal

Thanks for all your replies. I’ll try to answer all your questions.
Here is a link (of which there are many) showing the legal position of selling grey goods, https://www.briffa.com/blog/sale-of-grey-goods-in-the-uk-is-a-criminal-offence/
The camera is a genuine Nikon.
There is a recall on certain Nikon cameras for a fault, to find out if your camera is affected you have to input the serial number on Nikons website, you’ll then find out if the camera is affected. Because there is no serial number actually on the camera (the box in which the serial number is printed, is blank), I inputted the serial number from the shops receipt, the answer from Nikon is that it was affected so I sent it off to them for a free repair. Over two weeks later Nikon contacted me, the serial number (from my receipt) was incorrect, the true serial number, when inputted into Nikons website, showed the camera is not affected. Nikon discovered several discrepancies regarding the serial number, they said,  ‘The serial number on the camera, inside of the camera and on the box do not seem to correlate.’ They went on to inform that it was a grey import.
I have a 12 month dealer warranty with the camera.
Nikon actually say the turn around time for repairs is approximately 20 working days.
Nikon had the camera for over 1 month to investigate the serial number problems, they actually contacted the shop, I think one of their concerns was that the shop are Nikon dealers and Nikon wanted know why they were selling grey imports.
My complaint is 
Not being told it was a grey market import (Nikon have been known to refuse any repairs needed, even after their warranty runs out, with grey market cameras)
How can I prove this is the camera I bought from the dealer as the correct serial number is different to the serial number on the receipt?
I have been left without a camera for over 1 month, when if the correct serial number was on the receipt I would have needed to return the camera to Nikon
Ive lost over 1 months dealer warranty for no reason
The dealers website actually warns against buying grey imports.
Hope that further explains my position.

born_again

It seems odd that even a grey import does not have a serial number. As why would Nikon not put one on. This would lead to thinking, this not not a grey import. But a counterfeit camera. 
But Nikon would be able to tell that.

From your link.
Grey market goods/parallel imports are genuinely manufactured goods by the trade mark owner, for a particular jurisdiction, that are subsequently imported into a jurisdiction not authorised by the brand owner.

But Nikon do authorise to sell in the UK. They also used to have a worldwide warranty, (ended in 2021) like many other companies.

The issue you face here, is that is the warranty transferable, given it was a 2nd hand product?

keepitlegal

born_again said:

It seems odd that even a grey import does not have a serial number. As why would Nikon not put one on. This would lead to thinking, this not not a grey import. But a counterfeit camera. 
But Nikon would be able to tell that.

From your link.
Grey market goods/parallel imports are genuinely manufactured goods by the trade mark owner, for a particular jurisdiction, that are subsequently imported into a jurisdiction not authorised by the brand owner.

But Nikon do authorise to sell in the UK. They also used to have a worldwide warranty, (ended in 2021) like many other companies.

The issue you face here, is that is the warranty transferable, given it was a 2nd hand product?

I’m confident that it is a genuine Nikon (they had the camera for over a month), what I don’t understand is why there’s no serial number printed on the camera and also any future problems should that come to light should the camera need a repair.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grey imports used to refer to legitimate goods sourced from outside the EU without the brand owners consent, there was a big Tesco case on this which Tesco lost:

https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/tesco-loses-levi-jeans-trade-mark-battle

That's not to suggest all grey imports are "illegal", if they are imported with the brand owner's consent then it's legal AFAIK. 

How trademarks work now the UK has left the EU I'm not sure but the issue is one of rights ownership rather than anything else. 

OP's issue would come under misleading practices and omissions (no mention of material information which may alter the economic activity of the average consumer), given this store has a head office (so isn't an independent shop) you'd think they'd just refund the customer out of goodwill given the complaint is somewhat legitimate, OP it might be easier to contact the company's head office directly to see if they'll assist.

cymruchris

tightauldgit said:

cymruchris said:

keepitlegal said:

I understand it is illegal to sell imported grey goods into Great Britain, but does this extend to secondhand sales? 

It's not illegal. 

If you do some googling I think the source of confusion is that 'grey' seems to have two different uses.

1. An actual genuine authorised Nikon product imported to the UK through non-standard channels - legal. For example, someone is able to pick up a cheap job lot of Nikon cameras in Greece and ship them to the UK then sells them legally but not authorized by Nikon. Nikon still get paid for the cameras but by whatever route they got paid in Greece.

2. A third party manufacturer of a product runs off a few extra without the consent of the brand and flogs them through whatever channels. Although it would be branded Nikon this isn't a genuine Nikon product and Nikon never got paid for it. So it's effectively a high-class counterfeit. These are illegal to sell. 

Both these cases seem to be called "grey"  

I think the majority of 'grey import' cameras fall into the first category. If Nikon found out that there was a considerable supply of cameras that it had no records of as per scenario two, I can imagine that within hours the factory producing them would lose their contract, and a whole lot more. A factory would be pretty daft to do this, as no doubt owners would eventually need maintenance and service, and the whole ruse would soon be found out. (Not to say it wouldn't happen - but much further up the unlikely scale)

TELLIT01

It is not illegal to sell grey imports.  With photographic equipment the biggest problem is likely to be the manufacturer refusing to recognise the warranty and demanding the item be returned to the geographical area covered by said warranty. 

I'm surprised that any warranty offered by the shop is still valid over 6 months after the purchase anyway.  I'm not sure what the OP is hoping to achieve after all this time.