Is there a forum on MSE for getting advice for elderly parents?

UKSBD

This isn't really a benefits question so if anyone can point me in the right direction for a forum for advice on elderly parents on MSE (or another website) I would appreciate it.

I'll ask the question here but feel free to move or delete if this is the wrong place

My parents are both in mid 80's, mother reasonably OK and carer for my father who has dementia, Parkinson's, mental health issues, minor stroke and having falls more frequently.

They live in their own home, but it really is unsuitable, narrow winding staircase, awkward shower room upstairs, etc.

My father had a fall last week, was in hospital for 4 days, discharged on Sunday, another fall yesterday and broke his hip and had operation yesterday afternoon for hip replacement.

My father won't move, mother doesn't want him to go to a home but my concern is if hospital/social will do an assessment and say it's not suitable for him what happens then?

He has over £50k in savings and I really see 2 options

1. more paid care until money runs out (what happens then?)

2. Spend his savings and add on a downstairs bedroom and fully accessible bathroom

My main questions really.

Is he allowed to spend is savings on an extension or would that be classed as deliberately diminishing his savings with regards any benefits or allowances he receives.

Is the value of house taken in to consideration with any help for care he receives after he has spent all his savings

Would he be expected to sell the house if he has to go in to a nursing home, and if so, what happens to my mother?

To be honest, my biggest concern is my mother, if all their savings go on providing care for my father now, what happens when my mother needs the help?

Apologies if this is wrong place to ask these questions.

Misslayed

You're in the best place, someone with much better knowledge and experience than me will be along soon to help. 🤗

HillStreetBlues

1) money won't entirely run out as  some of it is ignored, how much depends on what nation they live in.
2) no, if he needs a downstairs bathroom then I can't see it being DoC getting one put in

Care in his own home the property is ignored and how much he would pay depends on savings and his income.

If he was going into a care home the property would be disregarded while your mother live in the house.
If you mother died or sold the house then it would no longer be disregarded
How much paid would also depends on savings and his income.

UKSBD

HillStreetBlues said:

1) money won't entirely run out as  some of it is ignored, how much depends on what nation they live in.
2) no, if he needs a downstairs bathroom then I can't see it being DoC getting one put in

Care in his own home the property is ignored and how much he would pay depends on savings and his income.

If he was going into a care home the property would be disregarded while your mother live in the house.
If you mother died or sold the house then it would no longer be disregarded
How much paid would also depends on savings and his income.

Thank you

They are in England

Would they expect to use my mums savings up too or is her money treated separately?

I assume the house is in joint names, so if the extension cost £50k would they expect my dad to pay £25k and my mum to pay £25k or could the work be done out of his £50k savings?

elsien

You say your father won’t move But it’s not just up to him is it? As his primary carer and half owner of the house, what  your mother think should be a large part of that decision.  What does she think about moving somewhere more manageable?

What happens next depends on your fathers capacity to make his own decisions about discharge. If he wants to go home and he is able to properly weigh up the pros and cons, then he has the right to do that. If he doesn’t have capacity around discharge destination then a best interest decision would be made on his behalf. Who the decision maker is depends on whether there is a health/welfare power-of-attorney or not.

Sometimes, depending on what adjustments can be made at home and how safe it is, there may be a suggestion for a short-term respite bed in a care home to give him the best chance of staying at home in the longer term. Or the hospital will have a Reablement team, might be called something else, which can put short-term support in at home and lend some equipment while he has a full needs assessment.
Doing the extension is not going to be a quick process, so can he be at home safely until that is done?

But it’s not just about him. It is about your mum as well. And although she’s managed up until now, having to look after someone with a broken hip in an adapted property is likeky to need some support so that she doesn’t become ill herself. Because if she can’t stay as his carer, staying at home is going to be a lot harder.

The house is disregarded for care funding purposes, whether he is at home or in a residential care home while your mother lives there. Age UK have some very good fact sheets if you want to look on there around all aspects of care and funding.
And savings once they reach a certain level are also disregarded. I think that your mother savings in her own name would be disregarded, but check the fact sheets for that. Any joint accounts would probably be split 50-50 for the financial assessment.

I can’t see any problem in using the money to make the property more accessible. But if your dad can’t manage the stairs, is there space downstairs for him to sleep for now?  Because not everyone is safe on a stairlift and there is something else that you would need to think about, if there is room to fit one.

 I would suggest getting a full OT assessment before you start paying for adaptations, to make sure that what you put in is right for your dad. The money shouldn’t be an issue but you don’t want to waste it on things that aren’t going to work.

As your father has dementia, unfortunately he is going to continue to get worse overtime and the point will come when he can’t make his own decisions. Is there a power-of-attorney in place, because if not and he still well enough to do that it would be a really good thing for him to do if you can persuade him of that. It will save a multitude of pain further down the line.

Newcad

As regards diminishing savings:

Savings only affect Income Related benefits, so the issue of Deprivation of savings/capital only affects Income related Benefits.

As they currently have savings of £50K+ then any benefits that they currently have cannot be Income Related so cannot be affected by any changes in savings.

UKSBD

Newcad said:

As regards diminishing savings:

Savings only affect Income Related benefits, so the issue of Deprivation of savings/capital only affects Income related Benefits.

As they currently have savings of £50K+ then any benefits that they currently have cannot be Income Related so cannot be affected by any changes in savings.

Thanks

I'm talking more about his care

He receives a small amount of carers allowance but uses savings to pay for care.

Not really a problem up to now as was unlikely he would use savings up, but it looks like he will need a lot more care now and I wonder about how he will pay for care when his savings are all gone.

Would my mum be expected to use her savings up paying for his care?

elsien

No she would not - see my answer above.

The home is disregarded.

Any separate accounts are treated being separate so only your dad's would be taken into account. Joint accounts will be treated as half each.  There is also guidance around not leaving mum in financial hardship if they are a traditional couple where everything is in his name.

What they shouldn't do is start to move things from his name into hers, as that would deprivation of assets.

Once your dad's savings reach the lower limit, he will still have to pay something from his income rather than his savings but he has to be left with a certain weekly amount. He is not going to be left without care. 

The important bit is that if he is a self funder, you get back onto the council when his savings go down to the 23.5 k and ask for the finances to be reassessed. Ditto the 14K.  Otherwise he will overpay. 

Paying for care at home | Age UK

Keep_pedalling

The issue with the extension idea is that by the time it is finished it may well be too late. The ideal solution would be a move to a more appropriate home but obviously that is a non goer if he won’t move. Do they have a downstairs room that can be adapted to a bedroom.

Do you have powers of attorney in place for both parents? If not that should be a priority certainly for your mother and if it is not too late for you4 father as well. If he no longer has mental capacity to make one then applying for deputyship would be advisable.

As this is not about benefits and would be better to be moved to the Marriages, families and relationships board.

UKSBD

elsien said:

You say your father won’t move But it’s not just up to him is it? As his primary carer and half owner of the house, what  your mother think should be a large part of that decision.  What does she think about moving somewhere more manageable?

Unfortunately, they are that generation where dad was provider, mum always at his beck and call.
He will just sit in chair, shout for what he wants and she will get it.

As it happens though, she wouldn't want to move either, which is why I'm thinking rather than spend all his savings on care now, spend it on making the home more manageable/accessible so it's a lot easier for them both now and she benefits in long run too. 

elsien said:

Sometimes, depending on what adjustments can be made at home and how safe it is, there may be a suggestion for a short-term respite bed in a care home to give him the best chance of staying at home in the longer term. Or the hospital will have a Reablement team, might be called something else, which can put short-term support in at home and lend some equipment while he has a full needs assessment.
Doing the extension is not going to be a quick process, so can he be at home safely until that is done?

They have already had little adjustments made, grab rails, etc, but due to how the stairs are, a stairlift isn't possible.

It's really going too be case of set a bed up downstairs and either try and fit an existing room with a small toilet and shower or have an extension with a proper accessible wetroom, and if going to the trouble do a full extension with wetroom and proper downstairs bedroom, rather than bed in corner of lounge.

At the moment she copes with him using a commode downstairs, that can't really go on though

elsien said:

As your father has dementia, unfortunately he is going to continue to get worse overtime and the point will come when he can’t make his own decisions. Is there a power-of-attorney in place, because if not and he still well enough to do that it would be a really good thing for him to do if you can persuade him of that. It will save a multitude of pain further down the line.

We both have full power-of-attorney for my father and I have it for my mother too

born_again

While you could spend to make a downstairs area suitable. Just how long is your mother going to be able to cope? Even with the care that can be given by external carers.

I had this with my mother, fell broke hip, fell broke arm, fell & was stuck overnight on the floor. Only found out when neighbour heard her shouting. Despite me going every night & carers going a couple of times a day.
We ended up despite objections by her about going into care, of her having to go into care. Which despite being able to have 4 visits from carers a day was deemed not enough by the hospital teams. On safety grounds.

While I can understand your mothers concern here, as she feels she is then left alone & in some ways letting her husband down. There comes a point where a line has to be drawn, which is a very painful decision for all concerned.
Let the hospital teams that will be involved now look at what can be the best course of action. Given they are the experts & have a totally health related view on your fathers care.
Might even be worth having a word with them on your own & explain the options on the extension & care. But that might take far longer to sort, than your father is in hospital for with his hip. Which leads to the issue of how will your mother cope then?