Energy companies that don't charge extra for not having a smart meter

[Deleted User]

I have had SMETS2 meters for 4 years. They have enabled me to save £00s in energy costs over that period of time. I am currently on a 6p/kWh (maximum) gas tariff until April 2024, and over the past 7 days my Octopus electricity bill is -£13.81 - thanks to their very generous solar export scheme.

My daughter is on Octopus Agile and she is also saving money on her electricity bill:

Swipe

MalMonroe said:

mark_cycling00 said:

Do you reckon I could save money via octopus if I put the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer on at cheaper periods eg. In the night. I don't have any electric heating or water heating 

Is that how it works? It's almost what I'm doing already just due to lifestyle 

Thanks 

Yes, if Octopus have stated that's the case. 

I put my dishwasher on at night but that's all. I don't want to annoy any neighbours because too many appliances on at the same time does generate a fair bit of noise. In my household, the dishwasher is the quietest out of those three.

PLUS - you're not really supposed to leave a tumble dryer running without being monitored and I'd also not want to leave a washer on by itself. I guess dishwashers should also not be left but we've been fine for the last twenty years and have a smoke detector so . ..  fingers crossed!

Of course if you're still up at night that's a different thing but I'd still not want to disturb my neighbour (just one elderly lady upstairs who has assured me she can't hear the dishwasher - it is very quiet) by having all three of those going at once.

Thank you for being a considerate neighbour. Just a pity there are not more like you who consider others over themselves. 

Scot_39

[Deleted User] said:

If you are not an Octopus customer and you do not have a smart meter, you will miss out on Martin Lewis’ latest tariff recommendation:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1754690/martin-lewis-octopus-energy-agile-tariff

Which may well end up being reversed when wholesale prices stabilise.  As forecast or July/:Oct.

It's easy for wholesale spot pricing tariffs like flex to win against ofgem time lagged cap on average when prices falling.

But look at say the Ofgem cap vs actual wholesale graphs - 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-announces-latest-quarterly-price-cap-update

And make sure you understand the upside risks too.

Because those spikes were real - and some people in community heating schemes actually had to pay them.

[Deleted User]

Scot_39 said:

[Deleted User] said:

If you are not an Octopus customer and you do not have a smart meter, you will miss out on Martin Lewis’ latest tariff recommendation:

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1754690/martin-lewis-octopus-energy-agile-tariff

Which may well end up being reversed when wholesale prices stabilise.  As forecast or July/:Oct.

It's easy for wholesale spot pricing tariffs like flex to win against ofgem time lagged cap on average when prices falling.

But look at say the Ofgem cap vs actual wholesale graphs - 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-announces-latest-quarterly-price-cap-update

And make sure you understand the upside risks too.

Because those spikes were real - and some people in community heating schemes actually had to pay them.

My comment was ‘slightly tongue-in-cheek’. The problem with recommendations of this nature are that they are often made well past the time when someone should have bought into the tariff. It is similar to buying a share when its value has already risen by 20%.

Scot_39

Miss_Trollope said:

Qyburn said:

Getting mixed up with the higher price for non-Direct Debit payment?

No, see my comment above. I didn't realise they did that, thanks for the heads up as I cannot afford to pay by direct debit at the moment.

There are some suppliers who will bill you at the direct debit rates - but based on monthly usage - if pay be direct debit.

So no overestimated annualised bills - but then no summer /:winter bill smoothing either.

Ofgem sets the rate caps for DD and pay on receipt and prepay.

Only a few suppliers deviate from their single rate electric and gas rates after epg discount.

Octopus are one,  I believe charge less than the Ofgem standing charge too.  It's c4% duel fuel, but split almost 50:50, despite gas sc near half some regions electric.  So on say £300, £12 pa.

Scot_39

[Deleted User] said:

I have had SMETS2 meters for 4 years. They have enabled me to save £00s in energy costs over that period of time. I am currently on a 6p/kWh (maximum) gas tariff until April 2024, and over the past 7 days my Octopus electricity bill is -£13.81 - thanks to their very generous solar export scheme.

My daughter is on Octopus Agile and she is also saving money on her electricity bill:

Some of those off peak slots are more expensive than e7 fixed time of use tariffs, but then the days are probably nearer a half.

And as wholesale prices stabilise, I expect to see that gap change.

And if prices spike like last winter, that 35p ceiling may be easily breached.

It's not a risk free option.

It's an option that works now, not for everyone.

And is not useful to those requiring acls metering for old style timerless nsh installations etc.

Spoonie_Turtle

Scot_39 said:

[Deleted User] said:

I have had SMETS2 meters for 4 years. They have enabled me to save £00s in energy costs over that period of time. I am currently on a 6p/kWh (maximum) gas tariff until April 2024, and over the past 7 days my Octopus electricity bill is -£13.81 - thanks to their very generous solar export scheme.

My daughter is on Octopus Agile and she is also saving money on her electricity bill:

And if prices spike like last winter, that 35p ceiling may be easily breached.

The 35p ceiling is Octopus' voluntary cap for that version of the tariff - actual pricing no doubt went way above that during the big spike last year.  Tracker retail unit price went above 80p at least once, and no doubt the actual peak price on Agile was yet above that (Tracker changes daily based on the average day-ahead price) but customers were protected by Octopus honouring their own cap on unit rates.

The new caps are 100p/kWh.

Scot_39

My reading was different for one of their tariffs.

It basically held to epg, until hit epg + epg discount - at the time I read was the Jan 31.84p ex, 33.4 inc vat.  In the same way an expensive pre epg fix got upto epg discount but epg remained a floor in that case.

So wholesale rate would need to have been say 35p+33p epg discount = 68p to go over 35p

But would cap at 100p - 33.4p discount = 66.6p ?

Is it now a hard 35p cap ?  Or would it still go over if wholesale demanded retail at c52p ?  (Allowing for 35p +  capped 16.6p+vat epg discount) ?

Spoonie_Turtle

Scot_39 said:

My reading was different for one of their tariffs.

It basically held to epg, until hit epg + epg discount - at the time I read was the Jan 31.84p ex, 33.4 inc vat.  In the same way an expensive pre epg fix got upto epg discount but epg remained a floor in that case.

So wholesale rate would need to have been say 35p+33p epg discount = 68p to go over 35p

But would cap at 100p - 33.4p discount = 66.6p ?

That is correct, with the later tariffs with higher Octopus caps.  EPG of course having regional variation, between 33 and 35p before, not sure what it is now.  (It's also correct for Tracker, with its respective Octopus caps.)

Is it now a hard 35p cap ?  Or would it still go over if wholesale demanded retail at c52p ?  (Allowing for 35p +  capped 16.6p+vat epg discount) ?

The hard 35p cap - self-imposed by Octopus - is for the original version of Agile, and applies nationwide without regional variation.  The regional variation comes in with the pricing formula, but the cap is the same everywhere.

July 22 version of Agile the cap rose to 55p, August version to 78p, and October version to 100p and apparently revised the pricing formula.
https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-east-midlands/