Neighbour’s tottering fence

Daisy_84

The fence that me and my neighbours share is starting to fall. I’ve had a look and I can see the that the post for that section of the fence is not secured by concrete. The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

My neighbours haven’t approached me about it, but in the event that they do and ask me to contribute, what rights do I have in this situation?

I’ve attached the pictures which show the post on question. What could have happened there? 

FreeBear

Daisy_84 said: My neighbours haven’t approached me about it, but in the event that they do and ask me to contribute, what rights do I have in this situation?

If you are certain that you have no responsibility towards the fence, they can ask for a contribution, and you can say no.

Suggest to them that concrete posts and gravel boards should be used - If they go for a like-for-like replacement, the posts will rot away again within 10 years or so. Concrete posts will last a lifetime and won't cost much more.

Daisy_84

FreeBear said:

Daisy_84 said: My neighbours haven’t approached me about it, but in the event that they do and ask me to contribute, what rights do I have in this situation?

If you are certain that you have no responsibility towards the fence, they can ask for a contribution, and you can say no.

Suggest to them that concrete posts and gravel boards should be used - If they go for a like-for-like replacement, the posts will rot away again within 10 years or so. Concrete posts will last a lifetime and won't cost much more.

The post was installed in 2018 by a well known house builder. Is it common wear and tear?

p00hsticks

Daisy_84 said:

The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

The fence ? or the boundary ? There's a difference.
 Unless there's some sort of covenant that say that the owner has to maintain a fence or some sort of other barrier, then there's not usually any obligation to have anything to mark the boundary at all, so they could decide to simply take the fence down.

FreeBear

Daisy_84 said:

FreeBear said:

Daisy_84 said: My neighbours haven’t approached me about it, but in the event that they do and ask me to contribute, what rights do I have in this situation?

If you are certain that you have no responsibility towards the fence, they can ask for a contribution, and you can say no.

Suggest to them that concrete posts and gravel boards should be used - If they go for a like-for-like replacement, the posts will rot away again within 10 years or so. Concrete posts will last a lifetime and won't cost much more.

The post was installed in 2018 by a well known house builder. Is it common wear and tear?

No. It is an indication that the builder has used the cheapest materials to get the job done without any thought as to effective lifespan.
Wood in contact with damp soil will rot. Cheap materials will last 5 years or less, better quality timber may last 10-15 years. If you use oak, you might get 25+ years, but it will still rot at the base.

Daisy_84

p00hsticks said:

Daisy_84 said:

The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

The fence ? or the boundary ? There's a difference.
 Unless there's some sort of covenant that say that the owner has to maintain a fence or some sort of other barrier, then there's not usually any obligation to have anything to mark the boundary at all, so they could decide to simply take the fence down.

I’m not asking them to maintain the fence. I’m asking where I stand with the neighbour wanting me to contribute. Whether or not they choose to fix the fence is up to them. The plan is that I got when I complete the show that my responsibilities the left fence.

CliveOfIndia

Daisy_84 said:

p00hsticks said:

Daisy_84 said:

The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

I’m not asking them to maintain the fence. I’m asking where I stand with the neighbour want me to contribute.

If the boundary is definitely their responsibility then you have no obligation to contribute to the repair.  Of course, you may wish to offer a contribution for the sake of neighbourly relations, and if a repair will benefit both parties.  But there is no obligation to do so.

Having said that, it's not a difficult or expensive job to remove and replace a single post yourself.  If you want replace it with another wooden post, make sure you buy pressure-treated timber, and make sure the concrete extends slightly above ground level.  This will help prevent it rotting at ground level, which is what often happens.

p00hsticks

Daisy_84 said:

p00hsticks said:

Daisy_84 said:

The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

The fence ? or the boundary ? There's a difference.
 Unless there's some sort of covenant that say that the owner has to maintain a fence or some sort of other barrier, then there's not usually any obligation to have anything to mark the boundary at all, so they could decide to simply take the fence down.

I’m not asking them to maintain the fence. I’m asking where I stand with the neighbour wanting me to contribute. Whether or not they choose to fix the fence is up to them. The plan is that I got when I complete the show that my responsibilities the left fence.

As FreeBear says, if you are confident that you have no responsibility for that boundary, then if they ask you can just say no. 

But you then need to be prepared for them to say that in that case they are unwilling or can't afford to get it fixed, so realistically it depends on how bothered you yourself are about the state of the fence, and if you are happy for them to just let it continue to totter or for them to remove it completely. 

Daisy_84

CliveOfIndia said:

Daisy_84 said:

p00hsticks said:

Daisy_84 said:

The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

I’m not asking them to maintain the fence. I’m asking where I stand with the neighbour want me to contribute.

If the boundary is definitely their responsibility then you have no obligation to contribute to the repair.  Of course, you may wish to offer a contribution for the sake of neighbourly relations, and if a repair will benefit both parties.  But there is no obligation to do so.

Having said that, it's not a difficult or expensive job to remove and replace a single post yourself.  If you want replace it with another wooden post, make sure you buy pressure-treated timber, and make sure the concrete extends slightly above ground level.  This will help prevent it rotting at ground level, which is what often happens.

The neighbours in question are very stuck up, so won’t be entering into those discussions with them. I won’t interfere by trying to get it fixed either since it’s their boundary. 

They are looking to sell their property so I think they may want to fix it. 

tacpot12

If they are selling, they have no incentive to use good quality materials or to install the replacement correctly. 

BikingBud

Daisy_84 said:

CliveOfIndia said:

Daisy_84 said:

p00hsticks said:

Daisy_84 said:

The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

I’m not asking them to maintain the fence. I’m asking where I stand with the neighbour want me to contribute.

If the boundary is definitely their responsibility then you have no obligation to contribute to the repair.  Of course, you may wish to offer a contribution for the sake of neighbourly relations, and if a repair will benefit both parties.  But there is no obligation to do so.

Having said that, it's not a difficult or expensive job to remove and replace a single post yourself.  If you want replace it with another wooden post, make sure you buy pressure-treated timber, and make sure the concrete extends slightly above ground level.  This will help prevent it rotting at ground level, which is what often happens.

The neighbours in question are very stuck up, so won’t be entering into those discussions with them. I won’t interfere by trying to get it fixed either since it’s their boundary. 

They are looking to sell their property so I think they may want to fix it. 

It's their boundary? Boundaries and maintenance of those via fences, walls etc are different things.

2.1 Legal boundary

An imaginary or invisible line dividing one person’s property from that of another. It is an exact line having no thickness or width and is rarely identified with any precision either on the ground or in conveyances or transfers and is not shown on Ordnance Survey mapping.

2.2 Physical boundary

A physical feature that we can see such as a fence, wall or a hedge, which may, coincidentally, also follow the line of a legal boundary. The legal boundary may run within the physical boundary structure but it might just as easily run along one particular side of the structure, or include all or any part of an adjoining roadway or stream. Living boundary structures such as hedges can be prone to a certain degree of movement: for example, if a hedge is left untended it might take root where it touches the ground and become very wide, making its original line hard to discern. So even if it is clear that the legal boundary ran along the hedge, identifying this boundary on the ground may become very difficult.

Daisy_84 said:

The fence that me and my neighbours share is starting to fall. I’ve had a look and I can see the that the post for that section of the fence is not secured by concrete. The plans show that the fence is their responsibility.

Obligation for the fence may be described but in reality that depends upon a number of things including how much you value having that physical separation:

8. Ownership and/or maintenance of boundaries

There are various notions that the way a wall or fence is constructed indicates ownership, for example that the posts and arris rails of a fence are on the owner’s side. There is, however, no legal foundation for such beliefs. Deeds may contain covenants to maintain a wall or fence but on their own, such covenants do not confer ownership. Where the ownership or responsibility for maintenance of a boundary cannot be determined, that boundary feature is generally best regarded as a party boundary. Any alterations or replacement of the boundary should only be done with the agreement of the adjoining owners.

The register will only show information concerning the ownership and/or maintenance of boundary features when this information is specifically referred to in the deeds lodged for registration.

From: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/land-registry-plans-boundaries/land-registry-plans-boundaries-practice-guide-40-supplement-3