Planning Enforcement

ThisIsWeird

And there is quite probably the nub of the whole issue - unhappy, self-pitying, envious folk who get their kicks from trying to intimidate others.

Note the incident down, and if it becomes a habit, record it, measure it - and report it.

People like that are extremely unlikely to stop through some epiphany or new-found empathy. They will only do so when made to.

Section62

lauraj27 said:

It was hard to make out what was being shouted due to the music, however when the latter stopped, there was 20 minutes of an expletive filled rant which was being shouted loud enough to hear through the walls that have been sound proofed on our side. 

Was the rant about you and/or your building work?

ThisIsWeird

lauraj27 said:

Section62 said:

lauraj27 said:

It was hard to make out what was being shouted due to the music, however when the latter stopped, there was 20 minutes of an expletive filled rant which was being shouted loud enough to hear through the walls that have been sound proofed on our side. 

Was the rant about you and/or your building work?

It did seem to be; I can always PM you what I heard with the expletives removed of course. 

If you PM S62 (a good idea), please leave all the expletives in :-)

Section62

lauraj27 said:

Section62 said:

lauraj27 said:

It was hard to make out what was being shouted due to the music, however when the latter stopped, there was 20 minutes of an expletive filled rant which was being shouted loud enough to hear through the walls that have been sound proofed on our side. 

Was the rant about you and/or your building work?

It did seem to be; I can always PM you what I heard with the expletives removed of course. 

No, don't worry about it.  I just wondered whether they gave you any useful information and/or if you'd just heard a rant about something else.

I've dealt with many similar situations (via work) and one of the issues you can get with neighbour disputes is that it can seem like everything is about the dispute, even when it isn't.  Assuming neither of you is planning on moving anytime soon then at some point there will need to be some kind of tolerance/acceptance of each other, otherwise the situation will spiral downward. Although it may seem impossible now, there will hopefully be a point where you can both ignore each other and de-escalate the situation.  To achieve that you'll need to be able to separate the reasonable from the unreasonable, and detach a bit from the situation.  E.g. the expletive filled rant could have been about something completely different, but it would be easy to hear the ranting neighbour and think it was about you.  Make a note about it for your own info, but don't dwell on it.

Unfortunately sometimes the advice you get on forums like this are a bit gung-ho and urge a response in kind to the neighbour.  That route usually just leads to escalation and more problems.  When you can see the other party as a human being - just apparently very much troubled - you can start moving towards a solution and less stress.

ThisIsWeird

If this needs to be 'escalated' - eg taken to your LA - then, after checking out each side's take on what's happening, the first recommendation towards a solution is often/usually mediation.

Mediation can be a bit of a mixed bag, but I'd certainly strongly recommend it for a couple of reasons; the first is very simply that if you refuse, it can reflect 'badly' on you and won't help your 'case'. This may be fair or completely unfair - ie, you may quite reasonably not wish to mediate with an aggressive psycho - but if the other party shows good willingness to mediate, then it will make the LA's task much harder if you don't do so too. The other reason it can be a mixed bag, is that a successful outcome is usually looked for and achieved by some 'give and take' from both parties, for simple human behavioural reasons. So some 'concession' may be expected, even from an entirely innocent party.

As it appears, you have already 'given' quite a bit - your steps to add sound insulation, a dog monitoring device, seek dog behaviour therapy, remove some bushes, etc. has seemingly blown many of your tastier options! You may not wish to concede anything more to these folk, but it's worth having something(s) in mind that really won't impact on you too much, but will come across as conciliatory, empathetic, and even generous. 

Other than that, mediation - in the hands of a good mediator - can be very cathartic and helpful. It usually becomes very clear what's going on.

ThisIsWeird

Section62 said:

Unfortunately sometimes the advice you get on forums like this are a bit gung-ho and urge a response in kind to the neighbour.  That route usually just leads to escalation and more problems.  When you can see the other party as a human being - just apparently very much troubled - you can start moving towards a solution and less stress.

Absolutely.

But my neighbour is a pathological liar, a cheat, a criminal, an environmental vandal, an entitled bigot, and supremely devious. He isn't 'troubled' - he likes what he is.

He needed to be put back in his box with an ultimatum. But, I did all the reasonable things for more than a decade beforehand; the polite requests, the attempts at reason, and even mediation. The second time I had to call the police out for criminal property damage, I told the Bobby I was happy to do mediation again (as I'd then accumulated a shed-load of evidence against the guy), but the cop said "I think it's past that now...".

Bottom line for me is that I regret not acting sooner against him, and let him off with a hell of a lot, telling myself, "Surely he'll stop now...?!"

I am certainly not advocating any sort of 'response in kind', gung-ho or not (I'm pretty sure you are not levelling that at me), as I always make it clear that the first rule is to be the better party, always reasonable, always calm, never let the other side have a valid case against you, but to also never be intimidated. Be reasonable, and give them enough rope.

elsien

I think that's the issue - you have been trying to placate them, but that can then backfire with their demands increasing and becoming more unreasonable over time. Because you acceding means that they then see their unreasonable demands as being reasonable because you have accepted them. 
It's more about (as above) making judgements about what is deliberate and what isn't and how you respond. Friendly, reasonable but still asserting your own rights when you need to. I do know how hard it can be, on edge all the time waiting for the music to ramp up, or whatever. But trying to placate them seems to have upped the ante anyway, so now it's more line in the sand time but without escalating. 

Does your local council have any sort of mediation service -  most don't but it's worth investigating.

ThisIsWeird

lauraj27 said:

Section62 said:

lauraj27 said:

Section62 said:

lauraj27 said:

It was hard to make out what was being shouted due to the music, however when the latter stopped, there was 20 minutes of an expletive filled rant which was being shouted loud enough to hear through the walls that have been sound proofed on our side. 

Was the rant about you and/or your building work?

It did seem to be; I can always PM you what I heard with the expletives removed of course. 

No, don't worry about it.  I just wondered whether they gave you any useful information and/or if you'd just heard a rant about something else.

I've dealt with many similar situations (via work) and one of the issues you can get with neighbour disputes is that it can seem like everything is about the dispute, even when it isn't.  Assuming neither of you is planning on moving anytime soon then at some point there will need to be some kind of tolerance/acceptance of each other, otherwise the situation will spiral downward. Although it may seem impossible now, there will hopefully be a point where you can both ignore each other and de-escalate the situation.  To achieve that you'll need to be able to separate the reasonable from the unreasonable, and detach a bit from the situation.  E.g. the expletive filled rant could have been about something completely different, but it would be easy to hear the ranting neighbour and think it was about you.  Make a note about it for your own info, but don't dwell on it.

Unfortunately sometimes the advice you get on forums like this are a bit gung-ho and urge a response in kind to the neighbour.  That route usually just leads to escalation and more problems.  When you can see the other party as a human being - just apparently very much troubled - you can start moving towards a solution and less stress.

Thank you. We have been trying to be kind and reasonable where possible and we always try to treat people how we want to be treated and recognise we are all human, however, I'm not sure how we can move towards a solution and less stress as I'm at a loss of what we can do to placate them, other than 1)Never leave the house & 2) Never have people over as they have previously told us we should never leave the property and having people over is unacceptable. 

We have invested a lot in the house and made it our own, however, part of me thinks it would be easier to move (although we don't have the funds to do so/cannot find a property in our budget) so we are bit clueless as to what to do next/how to resolve the situation. 

You don't 'placate' them. If their expectations are unreasonable, and their manner of trying to achieve them frankly anti-social, then the last thing you should do is 'give'. Their behaviour would be extremely unlikely to end at that, but their expectations simply increase.

You also shouldn't sell (tho', of course, that's entirely your call), for the simple reasons that you have spent a lot to make this your 'home', and you'd have to declare the issue with your neighbour to the buyers; expect a significant drop in your house value.

Deep breath - live your normal live to its full, and record everything they do to try and spoil it. Once you have accumulated enough evidence, you take action. 

Evidence.

Remind yourself as often as you need to that you would never behave to others as they do to you. 

twopenny

"Be reasonable, and give them enough rope. " Is something my grandparents used to say and I still stand by.

It is very true that if you behave reasonably but don't pander to them and wait the other party will eventually slip up and show their true colours .

It's worked for me on a number of occasions when people are recommending 'doing something'. And it's an option free of stress because you are letting go trying to deal with a situation you wouldn't normally be in but they will have perfected.

Just keep dated records as suggested and get on with life.