Planning Enforcement

lauraj27

Thank you - I guess we are going to worse case scenario as we have had a real run of bad luck lately and it seems that the planning officer is annoyed that we didn't have a meeting before carrying out the work and seems to have already made a decision but we will see what happens next week.  

Section62

_Sam_ said:

Section62 said:

lauraj27 said:

I'll PM you the photos as that might be easier. 

No disrespect intended towards ThisIsWeird, but the people you need to be discussing this with are the council's planning department.  If their enforcement officer says planning consent was needed then you need to understand (from them) why they think that, and either persuade them otherwise, or else make a retrospective application for consent.

ThisIsWeird is a very helpful poster, but I think I'd be right in saying they would themselves say they aren't an expert on permitted development rules, and in this case that is what you need if you don't want to make an application for consent.

Having been involved in many planning and neighbour disputes there are two things I'd suggest you do - firstly avoid letting the dispute with the neighbour escalate, secondly get the planners to clarify exactly what you need to do to regularise the planning situation. Then do that.

You could expend a lot of time and energy on this forum getting opinions about the planning situation, but in my view that is unlikely to move you much further forward against an enforcement officer who has already formed their own view.

I would agree that a usual caveat would apply in that discussion forum is not always going to be the correct advice. But often the advice given is correct, often a different view is presented that may make one think of an option one wasn't aware before etc - in other words, the discussion forum may help the OP to see the issues involved, and as such be better prepared to deal with planning enforcement officer. 

Simply sending them over to planning would not enable to the OP to "persuade them otherwise", if the OP is not sure about the potential issues

Usually with a forum like this people would share information so different viewpoints can be obtained.  Understandably, the OP doesn't want to share pictures on the open forum, so that means the way this forum usually works isn't going to be possible here.  Having advice from just one person who would readily say they don't know the details of PD could leave the OP having an argument with the EO using information which is completely incorrect.  That won't help them.

Part of the problem is all of us, including the OP, are in the dark as to what exactly the EO is thinking.  Which means this thread is an exercise in guesswork.  Some of the possibilities such as listing, Art4 direction etc have already been discussed - which tends to suggest there is a narrow technical issue here.

Therefore part of the solution is to find out what the problem is from the horse's mouth.

mi-key

lauraj27 said:

Thank you - I guess we are going to worse case scenario as we have had a real run of bad luck lately and it seems that the planning officer is annoyed that we didn't have a meeting before carrying out the work and seems to have already made a decision but we will see what happens next week.  

From the sounds of it the neighbour isn't going to be happy whatever you do, so ignore any of their demands and do what you want with the house and garden ( as long as its not legitimately infringing his rights in any way ).

It seems his objections to the garden are about the height of the raised area. Wait and see what the planning people say. If there is a problem they can be good and suggest simple fixes to make it comply, and don't always just demand any work is reversed 

theoretica

So the planning officer hasn't even seen your garden?  And may do so and then go away happy.  In preparation for your meeting, carefully read the permitted development rules for your area - and any restrictions on permitted development, so you can calmly point out how you do meet them (if you clearly do).   If you have evidence that you have lowered, rather than raised the area (and is it above the surround ground because it has been raised, or because that was historically lowered?) it would be good to have that on hand.

Something like this is clearly a raised platform - even though it isn't raised above the highest local ground level.  So greatest height above the ground mattering makes sense to me.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/709913/45031618824

mi-key

Thank you. They haven't visited the garden - they tried calling round and left a card but we were at work. There was no prior warning/notice that they would be showing up. 

I understand however, that the neighbour has submitted photos to the planning department, taken using his CCTV camera. 

We have photos from before any work was carried out, together with the initial levelling and then how it is now.  Hopefully we are just making a mountain out of a molehill but we just didn't get a good sense off the planning enforcement officer when we spoke with them on the phone. 

We have been researching everything for the last four days and we have a friend who is an architect and has been dealing with the planning application for the extension and they will be coming along to the property when the the planning enforcement officer visits next week. 

I have also found out today that despite the neighbour's objections, the council have approved the proposed extension, I bet that's going to go down well with the neighbour! 

Great news on the extension ! If the council have approved it then it shows he is moaning about nothing, and maybe it will shut him up a bit now he knows there is nothing he can do about it. 

ashe

lauraj27 said:

Section62 said:

lauraj27 said:

I'll PM you the photos as that might be easier. 

No disrespect intended towards ThisIsWeird, but the people you need to be discussing this with are the council's planning department.  If their enforcement officer says planning consent was needed then you need to understand (from them) why they think that, and either persuade them otherwise, or else make a retrospective application for consent.

ThisIsWeird is a very helpful poster, but I think I'd be right in saying they would themselves say they aren't an expert on permitted development rules, and in this case that is what you need if you don't want to make an application for consent.

Having been involved in many planning and neighbour disputes there are two things I'd suggest you do - firstly avoid letting the dispute with the neighbour escalate, secondly get the planners to clarify exactly what you need to do to regularise the planning situation. Then do that.

You could expend a lot of time and energy on this forum getting opinions about the planning situation, but in my view that is unlikely to move you much further forward against an enforcement officer who has already formed their own view.

Thank you. 

We are due to have the planning enforcement officer round next week; however we have had a telephone conversation with them where they said the slope is measured from the lowest point not the highest (which is contrary to the technical guidance) and that it was engineering works because more than two wheelbarrows of soil were moved and we should have had a meeting with them before the work was done. 

It's just causing a lot of stress and anxiety; if a retrospective application is needed, this is likely going to be objected to and we will then have to remove it.

Plus we just feel under siege and under surveillance in our own home which isn't a very nice situation but we can't find any other property to buy that's within our budget. 

We try to limit the interactions with the neighbour and any that we do have we try to be civil and extract ourselves as quickly as possible. 

I love reading local planning objections 😂 people object for all sorts of reasons but there are only certain legitimate reasons that they will actually listen to and people not wanting it to be done isn't one of them. 

ThisIsWeird

lauraj27 said:

Thank you. They haven't visited the garden - they tried calling round and left a card but we were at work. There was no prior warning/notice that they would be showing up. 

I understand however, that the neighbour has submitted photos to the planning department, taken using his CCTV camera. 

We have photos from before any work was carried out, together with the initial levelling and then how it is now.  Hopefully we are just making a mountain out of a molehill but we just didn't get a good sense off the planning enforcement officer when we spoke with them on the phone. 

I have also found out today that despite the neighbour's objections, the council have approved the proposed extension, I bet that's going to go down well with the neighbour! 

That's great news about the extension!

I can confirm that Laura's stepped patio (looks absolutely stunning) appears to be no higher than the raised ground that had been there previously, and is almost certainly actually slightly lower. The last 4 or 5 fence panels on both sides of their garden step up in sequence to match the rising ground level that was there, and the back fence continues along at this higher level. As Laura said, the tops of the gravel boards are obviously visible in both the original and patio'd pics - the actual ground 'levels' look to be very similar, and certainly not higher. The original grassy slope even had a very effective slide mounted on it... :-)

Laura, I'd also get advice from the ICO regarding that CCTV camera - if there isn't a legitimate reason for it covering your property, then it just shouldn't be capturing you or anyone on your own land. Based on the other crazy things this neighbour has been saying and demanding of you, I think you could possibly claim that they are spoiling your right to peaceful enjoyment of your property, and it could possibly even amount to harassment. 

I mean, what is the purpose of their complaints? Do they really think it's a reasonable request that you park on the road because they don't like the sound of a car door being shut? Or that you change your front garden into a parking area? Or cut down bushes because they don't like petals? Are they simply bullies? Is it a victim mentality? Are they mad?! Is it a power-game? If so, that's harassment - it is its very purpose.

ThisIsWeird

Record record record. Note it all down. Add it to your list.

Are there any other neighbours who may also be affected by this?

ThisIsWeird

Ah, of course - you are semi-detached?

Noise from music and TV can be hard to define whether it's excessive or deliberate - what does 'very loud' mean to you, and others. With the 'shouting' - what is being shouted? And how long does it last for?

We are all entitled to have a party now and then but if it becomes a new 'thing', and regular, then again it's something you may need to contact your LA about. No idea how accurate phone-App decibel meters are to start with?

If it's intentional, then they have to suffer it too - the idiots.

markin

Do they know about the sound proofing? Is it in all rooms?