Planning Enforcement

_Sam_

theonlywayisup said:

However, reading between the lines, assuming this to be true, then a platform (deck or patio) that is more than 300mm from ground level (at lowest point to the house) may need both Planning Permission and Building Regulation Approval.  It certainly does here in Cornwall. 

I thought it was the other way around - the height of the platform adjacent to the house (such as decking) is measured from the highest point of the ground where the house is.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf

“Height” - references to height (for example, the heights of the eaves on a house extension) is the height measured from ground level. (Note, ground level is the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to the building in question, and would not include any addition laid on top of the ground such as decking. Where ground level is not uniform (for example if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building.) 

theoretica

If someone, knowing nothing about the history of your garden, looked at it now would they think the patio was raised about the surrounding land? Is it ever more than 30cm above the nearest land? What percentage of the garden is now patio? That will be the starting point for an overworked and rushed planning officer and up to you to show that permitted development does apply.

Section62

lauraj27 said:

I know you have said that we won't necessarily have to rip the patio out, however, if we have to apply for retrospective planning permission, the neighbour who has complained, will object so there is a very strong possibility it will be ripped out, but equally we aren't (according to the neighbour) allowed to have any plants in that area.

It is a possibility, but on the basis of what you've said so far I wouldn't go as far as "strong".  The neighbour has a right to object. They don't have a right of veto.  If what you've said is accurate it sounds as though the need for a planning application is more of an edge-case technicality rather than being a certain refusal.

lauraj27 said:

The other bizarre thing is that we don't know how the planning enforcement officer got our phone number as when we attempted to call back it went to the council switchboard and we were informed that the council was closed. Moreover the architect who has been dealing with the extension called the planning officer and left two messages with their number yet the planning officer called us. Again we hadn't given them our number.

Councils have customer information systems, so if you've given one department your number it may be accessible to others.  Are you sure that none of the correspondence regarding your extension application includes the phone number they called?

lauraj27 said:

The other thing is that the neighbour who we know/think it is, owns two companies with the nature of the business' being described as: 

• 68100 - Buying and selling of own real estate
• 68209 - Other letting and operating of own or leased real estate
• 68320 - Management of real estate on a fee or contract basis
• 96090 - Other service activities not elsewhere classified
• 68201 - Renting and operating of Housing Association real estate

He's also told us that he is massively renovating these properties and given this and reference to housing association properties  I wonder whether he has had previous contact with the planning enforcement officer/department.

I wouldn't get too hung up on what the neighbour does/who he knows.  You don't know that they were the one who complained, and to a degree it isn't relevant anyway.  Someone complained, that's all that matters.

lauraj27 said:

The other thing that occurred to me is we have had previous conversations with this same neighbour about him extending his house. He mentioned extending his out the back, but right up against the boundary we share as well as extending out the front  right up against the boundary we share. We stated to him that we understand it's not possible to build within 2metres of the boundary line and for the front, there could also be an issue with the building line. In these conversations he told us that we were wrong and he had spoken to the council who told him that he can build any extension he wants right up against the shared boundary, there is no 2 metre requirement and any such extensions wouldn't need planning permission.

Yes and no.

In planning terms, BiB1 isn't true.  You can get planning consent to build across the boundary line onto the neighbour's land if you like.  There is no automatic 2m restriction in absolute terms, but in some situations it may affect permitted development rights, and/or the council's local plan may have a policy about building close to the boundary (sometimes done with detached properties to preserve the 'detached' style)

BiB2 is also more complicated than that.  The council can sometimes declare a 'building line' (e.g. with future road improvements in mind), but in planning terms it is really about permitted development rights.  Building forward of the face of the building nearest the road is one of the things that permitted development rights differ compared to building at the side and also from the rear.  It is possible to build front extensions, but these will almost always require a planning application.

So the neighbour is right and wrong.  They could (probably) build a 'permitted development' extension at the rear of the property and build up to the shared boundary.  They probably couldn't build at the front without getting planning consent.

elsien

You are aware the neighbour telling you you can’t have plants is complete cobblers? Blossom or not. 

ThisIsWeird

lauraj27 said:

Thank you for the detailed reply. 
 
I guess we have just had so many issues with this neighbour and they have always been trying to tell us what to do and what not to do with our property since they moved in. 

Moreover, they have put a public comment on  the council website for the the proposed plans for the extension we are looking at doing, and thier comments include that we have had extensive terraces built,  the patio is illegal or if it isn't it should be and it must be looked into by the council and he fully objects to the extensive terrace and it needs to be demolished. 

The whole garden is 80ft long by 60ft wide. The patio is 18ft long by 40 ft wide (there are flowerbeds either side) and it is not 30cm higher than the surrounding land. 

Dear lawd, Laura.

Where to start? Forget 'public comments' on the website - these are an irrelevance. If folk write in with reference to a planning application, their letters are included in the attached docs, whether it's a legitimate complaint or not. When it isn't, they serve only to show up that neighbour as a deludedtwit/ entitled idiot/nastyselfishpieceofwork/or just misdguided. If it isn't a valid point of complaint, then it means jack. 'Terraces' ma botty.

This unpleasant neighbour complained about blossom, and you - unbelievably - removed your bushes? No wonder they think they can do or say whatever, and you will be intimidated into compliance.

Sort these issues into 'valid' or 'idiot'. It's pretty clear that many of the issues you've had since moving in fall into the latter, so - if you want to - readdress them. When they complain again, ask them if they are mad. And to make a formal complaint should they truly believe they have a valid issue. Personally, I'd be looking to remove them from my sight, using whichever plants, trees and shrubs are most appropriate.

They rant and shout and complain? Well, record it all, and report them. If you genuinely feel intimidated by their behaviour, then make that call to the local Bobby, and not just the LA.

With their extension, look into the correct planning requirements. If it doesn't comply, report them, or make a formal complaint. If it's within planning guidelines, then ignore it - but give them no help or quarter. Insist on the PWA, for example, if relevant.

Etc etc etc.

And, I'm sorry, but I cannot put my mind to working out what you've done with your garden based on your written description. A clear sketch with dims, please, would really help.

mi-key

I wonder if this neighbour tries to sue the local birds for pooing in his garden, or dropping a bit of bread on his gravel as they fly overhead.

No way I would let a neighbour dictate if I could have plants in my garden based on a bit of blossom blowing onto his !

twopenny

I have to agree that a high hedge would be my desire - front and back. You could start with a tree to block the camera. Keep it all on your side so they can't interfere with it.
If they do build that extension thats more of your garden you can use in privacy.
If he truely is to selling on thats a hope for the near future.
Also yes, you've been too nice and obliging to a bully and increased his self importance.
Can you pist a photo of your back garden?

lauraj27

ThisIsWeird said:

lauraj27 said:

Thank you for the detailed reply. 
 
I guess we have just had so many issues with this neighbour and they have always been trying to tell us what to do and what not to do with our property since they moved in. 

Moreover, they have put a public comment on  the council website for the the proposed plans for the extension we are looking at doing, and thier comments include that we have had extensive terraces built,  the patio is illegal or if it isn't it should be and it must be looked into by the council and he fully objects to the extensive terrace and it needs to be demolished. 

The whole garden is 80ft long by 60ft wide. The patio is 18ft long by 40 ft wide (there are flowerbeds either side) and it is not 30cm higher than the surrounding land. 

Dear lawd, Laura.

Where to start? Forget 'public comments' on the website - these are an irrelevance. If folk write in with reference to a planning application, their letters are included in the attached docs, whether it's a legtitamet complaint or not. When it isn't, they serve only to show up that neighbour as a deludedtwit/ entitled idiot/nastyselfishpieceofwork/or just misdguided. If it isn't a valid point of complaint, then it means jack. 'Terraces' ma botty.

This unpleasant neighbour complained about blossom, and you - unbelievably - removed your bushes? No wonder they think they can do or say whatever, and you will be intimidated into compliance.

Sort these issues into 'valid' or 'idiot'. It's pretty clear that many of the issues you've had since moving in fall into the latter, so - if you want to - readdress them. When they complain again, ask them if they are mad. And to make a formal complaint should they truly believe they have a valid issue. Personally, I'd be looking to remove them from my sight, using whichever plants, trees and shrubs are most appropriate.

They rant and shout and complain? Well, record it all, and report them. If you genuinely feel intimidated by their behaviour, then make that call to the local Bobby, and not just the LA.

With their extension, look into the correct planning requirements. If it doesn't comply, report them, or make a formal complaint. If it's within planning guidelines, then ignore it - but give them no help or quarter. Insist on the PWA, for example, if relevant.

Etc etc etc.

And, I'm sorry, but I cannot put my mind to working out what you've done with your garden based on your written description. A clear sketch with dims, please, would really help.

Well we think the public comment on our proposed extension by this neighbour is what has led to the involvement of planning enforcement officer in relation to the patio or as they have stated extensive terraces. 

We didn't necessarily remove the shrubs because he complained about blossoms blowing into his garden, but because we wanted to make the most/best use of the space so thought it would be best to turn it into a paved area that could be sat on during the summer months. Lots of other plants have remained in both the front and back garden. Guess I was just trying to say that it seems silly to complain about the patio when previously they complained about plants that were there. 

I can't really sketch and I'm a bit worried about uploading photos of the area in case the neighbour finds this thread. So I will try to make it a bit clearer. 

The entire garden from the back of the house to the bottom of the garden is 80ft in length. The final 18-20ft  length of the garden, i.e. the area we have paved, when we moved in consisted of a sloped hill. The bottom of the slope up to it's highest point (which coincided with the height of the gravel boards of the back fences) was about 45cm-50cm.  We had the area flattened/levelled and put paving slabs down and the paving slabs are actually lower than the gravel boards of the back fences. 

lauraj27

mi-key said:

I wonder if this neighbour tries to sue the local birds for pooing in his garden, or dropping a bit of bread on his gravel as they fly overhead.

No way I would let a neighbour dictate if I could have plants in my garden based on a bit of blossom blowing onto his !

He had his TV aerial taken down because birds were perching on it and relieving themselves on his roof tiles and he told us we also needed to take ours down and we refused which he wasn't happy about. 

We didn't necessarily remove the shrubs because he complained about the blossoms, we wanted to make the most use of the space and there are still plenty of plants in the front and back garden. It's just strange that there was a complaint about the presence of shrubs and even though some have now been removed there is a complaint about the paved area that has replaced them, 

lauraj27

twopenny said:

I have to agree that a high hedge would be my desire - front and back. You could start with a tree to block the camera. Keep it all on your side so they can't interfere with it.
If they do build that extension thats more of your garden you can use in privacy.
If he truely is to selling on thats a hope for the near future.
Also yes, you've been too nice and obliging to a bully and increased his self importance.
Can you pist a photo of your back garden?

I'm concerned about posting a photo in case the neighbour stumbles across this thread. 

My theory is that they are trying to drive us out so they can buy our house and knock the two houses into one as they are attached. 

We have tried to be civil because we can't cope with the stress, anxiety and distress.