Bills not going down despite using less

Scot_39

markin said:

Then i presume its a modern condensing boiler, what is the flow temp set to? Model?

Leaving the heating on 24hrs at 24c (for elderly people) with a low flow temp around 45c - 50c is the most efficient way.

Often people with smart meters report tuning off for 2 hrs or over night just doesn't save any gas, It just has to work double hard to make up the heat loss Vs gently ticking over to maintain temp.

Low flow temperatures will only aggrevate problem with an undersized / powered radiator.

Perversely if anything OP may need to increase in colder periods.

But hoping a fan or a bespoke radiator fan might make enough of a difference to help with temps if not bills.

And that if helps might then allow lower flow temperatures.

jvjack

Loads of good points in thread. Getting living room to decent temperature with a gas central heating radiator is difficult to get above in my case 19 degrees when temperature is 8 degrees outside. Thats my living room and will have to work on it next winter as sun today come through window for three hours today and is 20 degrees with no heating.
But as said above care homes are warm and cozy for elderly. My regular visits to lots of them with work i would agree they are at at least 23 degrees.
michael079 have you got thermometer to check air temperature in main room. Sorry if youv'e already said

michael079

Thank you to everyone who has helped and advised, I'd never expected such expert help and my brain is frazzled with all the information 🤣 But I'm very thankful, and I think the first thing I need to do is get her into single rate electricity. From everything else I'm reading in the comments I should then look at getting a radiator fan and look into funding for better insulation, and get someone other than the gas man to come and have a look at the system and have a check over etc.

Also, the Electric blanket suggestion should help too.

Thanks again all you awesome people 🤗

michael079

Robin9 said:

Yes because that radiator will give out more heat, reach the required temp (20 is generally good enough but your mum may need a touch more) quicker then the boiler cuts out saving gas.

Tell us more of your house  - age, you say loft insulation but is that 100mm or 300mm, double glaze, wall insulation, where is the room stat ?
 ....  and the electrics - are you all LED or do you have those 50w halogens in the kitchen ?

Does she get the Warm Homes Allowance ?


What benefits does you mum get ? 

Kitchen is LED strip and her benefits are attendance allowance plus pension. She does get winter fuel payments but not sure about warm home allowance, perhaps that's the English version of what she gets every year. Room stat is in hall.

I was up the loft today and the insulation looks very thick, I don't know if 100mm or 300mm but was about half a foot or more thick 

michael079

jvjack said:

Loads of good points in thread. Getting living room to decent temperature with a gas central heating radiator is difficult to get above in my case 19 degrees when temperature is 8 degrees outside. Thats my living room and will have to work on it next winter as sun today come through window for three hours today and is 20 degrees with no heating.
But as said above care homes are warm and cozy for elderly. My regular visits to lots of them with work i would agree they are at at least 23 degrees.
michael079 have you got thermometer to check air temperature in main room. Sorry if youv'e already said

My mum was in a nursing home for respite in 2021 winter, it was warm indeed but they said they couldn't look after her because she needs constant supervision because of high energy and poor balance and awareness. She had multiple falls and injuries there. 

I do have a thermometer yes and I've just checked and its 20, with the stat set to 30. Put the fan heater on for 10 mins and it went up to 22. Turned it off and I'm wearing a t shirt and I would say it's a bit little bit chilly without the fan heater on. I can deal with that but, even though she has a throw over her we do need to keep putting fan heater on now and then to keep her warm enough. 

Spoonie_Turtle

michael079 said:

Robin9 said:

Yes because that radiator will give out more heat, reach the required temp (20 is generally good enough but your mum may need a touch more) quicker then the boiler cuts out saving gas.

Tell us more of your house  - age, you say loft insulation but is that 100mm or 300mm, double glaze, wall insulation, where is the room stat ?
 ....  and the electrics - are you all LED or do you have those 50w halogens in the kitchen ?

Does she get the Warm Homes Allowance ?


What benefits does you mum get ? 

Kitchen is LED strip and her benefits are attendance allowance plus pension. She does get winter fuel payments but not sure about warm home allowance, perhaps that's the English version of what she gets every year. Room stat is in hall.

I was up the loft today and the insulation looks very thick, I don't know if 100mm or 300mm but was about half a foot or more thick 

Warm Home Discount is an extra (now) £150.  Rules in Scotland are if you receive Pension Credit you automatically get it, otherwise you might qualify based on income plus vulnerability - in her case, pension age.  But unlikely, if she does not qualify for Pension Credit.

Worth just checking whether she would qualify for Pension Credit, if she receives full State Pension then probably not (the disability premium does not apply as you live with her, unless you get a qualifying disability benefit yourself) but still worth a check just to make sure
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/
https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

Does she own or rent the house?  If she rents, Housing Benefit may be a possibility too (and would then qualify her for the WHD next year).

Winter Fuel Payment is for all pensioners in the UK, usually £200 per household (or £300 if over 80) but this year was £500 (£600 if over 80) to include the extra Pensioner Cost of Living Payment too.


Half a foot insulation would be 150mm (15cm/6").

Spoonie_Turtle

michael079 said:

Scot_39 said:

michael079 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

With the stat at 30 and the rooms never reaching anywhere near it means the heading is always on, trying to reach that temperature.  That's going to use a heck of a lot.

Also you've not said why there are two electricity rates when she has gas heating and hot water?  That's making all your daytime electricity use way more expensive than it needs to be (unless they're charging the single rate for both readings).

I have no idea why there are two rates. She can't tell me anymore because she has dementia. I always had a prepaid meter when I had my own flat so I'm not familiar with it. I also don't know how they calculate it but they do ask for both rates, day time and night time when I enter the readings 

The historical reasons really don't matter.

Assuming you have power of attorney etc you can swap on her behalf - it's often very quick process - but their can be issues(*)

If you can dig out annual day and night and tariff splits - the electric p/kWH people will advise if still worthwhile  (medical aids that most people don't think of can swing it z so not just likes of nsh and immersion hot water etc)  - but as a general you need to be using over 40% electric off peak overnight to get anywhere close to break even.

(*) Also if you can say whether she has 1 or 2 meters - the bills will have one or 2 mpans (little grids with loads of reference numbers and codes ) or 2 meter serial numbers. 
Don't quote them just the number of thrm 1 or 2  - like any personal information on any bills - redact it before post images etc.

I don't know if this information helps in what you're referring to. This is from February's bill[second page]

Reuploading the second page of the bill with identifying numbers scrubbed out (and have deleted the original from my device, of course)

Slinky

There's your problem. Economy 7 where you are using huge amounts on the high day rate. Get that changed to single rate tarriff and it will knock your bill down massively.

Scot_39

@michael079

Your E7 rates are (or rather were - as changed yesterday)  - 50.575p off peak and 14.342p - all ex VAT.

You used 60kWh off peak - and 550 kWh peak - last month = 10% - far too low a split - as that works out as average of 45.75p. 

Over last year - 685 off peak, 4375 peak = 13.5% - and again far too low - an average price on above unit rates - 45.65p - to remain on E7

Not sure what they mean by monthly bill - but last quarter the EPG SR for S Scotland - was 32.30p for DD or 35.71 for standard credit - c10p less.  Over 5060 units c£500 less

All the prices would have changed yesterday but the c 10-13% vs nominal 42% night - remains.

If that is standard credit - you might want to pay by DD - if it's monthly by variable DD at DD rates - then the potential savings on SR of c10p/£500 - even higher.

As feared your are definetely on the wrong tariff - the bill shows only 1 mpan - so hopefully should be easier to switch to SR with SP or elsewhere instead.

But those consumption numbers are very high - and looking at annual charge of around £5500 at those rates - the headline EPG £2500 numbers use 2900 electric and 12000 gas - you were c5000 electric and 29,500 gas - so can see why you are worried.

By southern standards those are very high numbers, but seen articles in Scottish press - where they were talking £5000 - 7000 pa - but that also partly as more off mains gas grid though - again due to weather differences, construction differences etc. etc.

But it just emphasises perhaps a need to look at longer term efficiency measures - as savings are likely to be larger than average too.

michael079

Spoonie_Turtle said:

michael079 said:

Scot_39 said:

michael079 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

With the stat at 30 and the rooms never reaching anywhere near it means the heading is always on, trying to reach that temperature.  That's going to use a heck of a lot.

Also you've not said why there are two electricity rates when she has gas heating and hot water?  That's making all your daytime electricity use way more expensive than it needs to be (unless they're charging the single rate for both readings).

I have no idea why there are two rates. She can't tell me anymore because she has dementia. I always had a prepaid meter when I had my own flat so I'm not familiar with it. I also don't know how they calculate it but they do ask for both rates, day time and night time when I enter the readings 

The historical reasons really don't matter.

Assuming you have power of attorney etc you can swap on her behalf - it's often very quick process - but their can be issues(*)

If you can dig out annual day and night and tariff splits - the electric p/kWH people will advise if still worthwhile  (medical aids that most people don't think of can swing it z so not just likes of nsh and immersion hot water etc)  - but as a general you need to be using over 40% electric off peak overnight to get anywhere close to break even.

(*) Also if you can say whether she has 1 or 2 meters - the bills will have one or 2 mpans (little grids with loads of reference numbers and codes ) or 2 meter serial numbers. 
Don't quote them just the number of thrm 1 or 2  - like any personal information on any bills - redact it before post images etc.

I don't know if this information helps in what you're referring to. This is from February's bill[second page]

Reuploading the second page of the bill with identifying numbers scrubbed out (and have deleted the original from my device, of course)

Oops 🤦🏼‍♂️and thanks, much appreciated