Opinions on Thornton Baines

adam_l

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

The charges were 2.95% of the entire pot initially and then 0.95% of the entire pot annually. 

From what you say that seems expensive. I will decline.


What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

Linton

adam_l said:

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

The charges were 2.95% of the entire pot initially and then 0.95% of the entire pot annually. 

From what you say that seems expensive. I will decline.


What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

For most private investors an IFA in the local high street would be fine and probably significantly cheaper than a well-advertised national name.  It is normally suggested here that you contact say 3 of them and arrange a free half hour initial chat for you to explain what you want and them to explain what they can do for you and the likely costs.  Then choose the one that you feel you can most easily work with.

Also recommendations from friends and family may be useful.

adam_l

Linton said:

adam_l said:

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

The charges were 2.95% of the entire pot initially and then 0.95% of the entire pot annually. 

From what you say that seems expensive. I will decline.


What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

For most private investors an IFA in the local high street would be fine and probably significantly cheaper than a well-advertised national name.  It is normally suggested here that you contact say 3 of them and arrange a free half hour initial chat for you to explain what you want and them to explain what they can do for you and the likely costs.  Then choose the one that you feel you can most easily work with.

Also recommendations from friends and family may be useful.

Many thanks, much appreciated.

Albermarle

adam_l said:

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

The charges were 2.95% of the entire pot initially and then 0.95% of the entire pot annually. 

From what you say that seems expensive. I will decline.


What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

Like all industries the financial services has its fair share of jargon, that is difficult to avoid completely. 
The more you understand yourself, the better you will understand what the IFA is saying.

jimjames

adam_l said:

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

Is there a reason you feel you need an IFA? It sounds like you already have a portfolio setup with some decent funds in it, is there something additional that you want to get from advice? 

adam_l

jimjames said:

adam_lsaid:

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

Is there a reason you feel you need an IFA? It sounds like you already have a portfolio setup with some decent funds in it, is there something additional that you want to get from advice? 

Mainly it's to check the I am  more or less doing the right thing...
In particular should I diversify with more funds. 


The Vanguard funds are not doing well at the moment - but I suspect that is because in general funds are not doing well because of the world economic climate.

I suppose I have been a bit spooked because of the Thorntons Baines   rep saying that other funds would perform much better...  I just wanted to check that out independently.

bostonerimus

adam_l said:

dunstonh said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

The charges were 2.95% of the entire pot initially and then 0.95% of the entire pot annually. 

From what you say that seems expensive. I will decline.


What is the best way to find an unbiased and fair IFA who won't blind me with jargon?

Just hang up on all "cold callers". If you want to do something else then it should be blowing them a raspberry or telling them to "get a life".

So why do you need an IFA? You are on a good fund platform and can easily adjust your asset allocation yourself if you want to. FYI your portfolio is very diversified right now.

Albermarle

I suppose I have been a bit spooked because of the Thorntons Baines   rep saying that other funds would perform much better.

They are trying to sell you something, so rubbishing the competition and exaggerating the benefits of their products is just sales tactics.

Nearly all investments have gone down since Jan 1st 2022, mainly in the region of 5 to 20 %

A typical mainstream medium risk multi asset fund probably more in the region of 5 to 10%

adam_l

Albermarle said:

I suppose I have been a bit spooked because of the Thorntons Baines   rep saying that other funds would perform much better.

They are trying to sell you something, so rubbishing the competition and exaggerating the benefits of their products is just sales tactics.

Nearly all investments have gone down since Jan 1st 2022, mainly in the region of 5 to 20 %

A typical mainstream medium risk multi asset fund probably more in the region of 5 to 10%

Many thanks, that's what I thought just wanted to make sure...

Illustrates  my lack of expertise in this area. I will educate myself more.