Opinions on Thornton Baines

adam_l

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

I have @ 450k pot split across two Vanguard funds (LifeStrategy 40% and Target Retirement 2025). The reason I chose Vanguard funds originally (@5 years ago) was because they were well recommended at the time, and seemed suitable for people that know little about investing, such as myself.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 
He then went on to recommend one of the TB schemes, and produced figures to show that it performed much better. It was much more diverse - I think that 20 funds were involved. 

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

I have got no idea how these charges compare with other advisors. Does anyone know if this is expensive or normal? Has anyone heard of Thornton Baines? Are they reputable?


Thanks!

MX5huggy

No no no. 

You’ve got yourself in to a good position using cheap index trackers within multi asset funds. If you really want advice find an IFA ( big I in that). 

They are talking rubbish about diversification. Except LS100 which only has 7000 ish stocks in in it the other LS funds have more than 25000 stocks and bonds they aren’t offering anywhere near that diversified options. It’s easy to prove something would have performed better with hindsight. 

zxspeccy

You state you were cold called by them, any company that cold calls me I simple don't deal with. Did they know you have sizable investment, if so how did they get this information? Personal data is traded around these days which makes me think that they have somehow identified you as a potential customer. Also bad mouthing a competitor in order to get a sale doesn't sit well with me.

I would steer well clear, not because I know anything about the company, but because they cold called you and are trying to get your business by criticising you current provider and that is a little shady in my opinion.

JohnWinder

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better,‘

Your, or anyone’s consideration of performances of one investment compared to another should always compare the riskiness of the investments as well. If TB’s offering is more risky than your Vanguard holdings then it’s likely to return more, but would it be too risky for you?

Secondly, you, and we should consider over what period the comparison is being made. You’re 63 years old, so the next 20 years of investing returns might be relevant for you. A comparison of only 5 years performance would be much less relevant. 

Thirdly, even if the risk measures were the same, and the comparison period long enough, past performance does not equate to future performance we are reminded ad nauseam. Let spruiking a comparison of performances be the last refuge of the scoundrel, while you compare the important matters, like: what assets were in the investments; and those assets suitably risky for me; is the timeframe of those assets’ returns suitable for my timeframe; and yes, how do the costs compare?  ‘The expense ratio is the most proven predictor of future fund returns. We find that it …and that’s also what academics, fund companies, and, of course, Jack Bogle, find when they run the data.’ ‘So, the cheaper the funds, the better your returns. All told, cheapest 20% funds were 3 times as likely to succeed as the priciest 20% of funds.’

https://www.morningstar.com/articles/752485/fund-fees-predict-future-success-or-failure

Diversification is important. TB don’t detail their funds’ composition, Vanguard does. Get back to us when TB will give you the detail of their funds to the level of detail Vanguard gives.

And yes, I’d say TB is expensive. Do your little bit to put downward pressure on costs for us the long suffering investors by telling them that’s why you’re rejecting their advances, if you do.

GeoffTF

Stick with the Vanguard funds. They are a good choice. There are other good choices, but it is a matter of luck which will do best. Load the dice in your favour by keeping your costs down. NEVER give any money to cold callers. How did you get on their suckers list? You could hire an IFA much more cheaply, but that would be needless expense.

25_Years_On

adam_l said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines.

Are they reputable?

Reputable firms don't cold call or need to cold call. You've made it to the suckers list so get off as soon as you can but expect further calls from "reputable" companies.

Albermarle

 Reputable firms don't cold call

Exactly 

OP- Block the number on your phone.

MEM62

adam_l said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. 

There is your alarm bell straight away.  Regulated companies are not allowed to cold call.   

adam_l said:
The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

He's talking rubbish.  Deal with these guys at your peril.  As previously advised, if you want a checkup on your finances consult an IFA.  
   
  

dunstonh

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

Cold calling doesn't happen with reputable regulated advice companies. And for pensions and pension investments, it is actually banned.   Thornton Baines is a genuine regulated advice company, but are you sure it was them that called and not someone pretending to be them?  Clone scams are rife at the moment.

The Thornton Baines rep rubbished the Vanguard funds, and the lack of diversification in my holdings. Fair enough. 

 A good IFA is not going to rubbish Vanguard funds.   They may have certain mild observations or point out disadvantages. e.g. The VLS range was great in 2011 but there are now cheaper and better-performing equivalents from other fund houses.    And their trackers are often not the cheapest or best performing.    That said, I have three Vanguard trackers in my portfolio as I deem them to be the best in the areas they are tracking.   

Any real adviser that rubbishes Vanguard funds is not a good adviser.    Mild observations are fine, but Vanguard funds are good. Maybe not the best in every area, but no fund house is.

I am happy to accept that his recommended approach performs better, however the charges seem  high. TB want 2.95% of the fund value initially, and then a 0.95% charge per year thereafter. Plus VAT I imagine.

Assuming it is the real company, then you would expect higher charges for a London based firm.   2.95% needs context.  2.95% of £50k is fine.  2.95% on £500k is greedy.    0.95%  (assuming adviser charge and not all in) is fine on lower values but expensive on higher values.  You often find adviser charges float between 0.35% to 1.00% with low values on 1% and gets cheaper as the value goes up).   There should be no VAT as intermediation (i.e. IFAs) is VAT exempt.   If there is any reference to VAT then it is a mistake by the firm.

jimjames

adam_l said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

I agree with all the previous comments but wanted to pick up on this. Was it actually cold calling or had you completed any info maybe online that requested them to contact you? Did you ask where they got your details from?

adam_l

jimjames said:

adam_l said:

I was cold called recently by a company called Thornton Baines. They offered to conduct a free  initial review of my savings, which I agreed to.

I agree with all the previous comments but wanted to pick up on this. Was it actually cold calling or had you completed any info maybe online that requested them to contact you? Did you ask where they got your details from?

They originally cold called me about three or four years ago.  I declined their proposal at that time.

This is apparently a follow up to see if anything has changed at my end and if they can now help. 

Thanks to all respondents I agree it does seem fishy and I won't take it any further.

 It's reassuring to hear that most people think that Vanguard funds are still pretty good. They haven't done very well recently of course but then I guess nothing  has in my medium risk bracket.


Many thanks all!