Council Tax Class F cancelled before probate, long after "Executors' Year" [Merged]

theoretica

You really need a professional - they can work things out even without all the paperwork about accounts, won't be the first time this has happened.  There will be ways they can search for accounts in her name.

For the backdated council tax, where they had previously said the property was exempt try writing to your MP.

harpee

DontLikeCouncils said:

The council never even hinted at a problem or a time limit until this year. They suddenly announced that they had recently audited the property address, I have failed in my duty as executor, and in accordance with the common law "executors' year" they will now treat the dwelling as being in my sole name. They say as residuary beneficiary I have a freehold interest in the dwelling as set out by Section 6 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992.

They are demanding six years' back tax, a five figure sum, for 2017-2023 and CT for 2023-24.

Can they do any of this? I have not misled them or deliberately delayed probate. Why would I? 

...

I don't understand the legal justification for the demand and I wonder whether a relevant case has ever been decided in court.

I am not aware of a high court case but would refer you to the Valuation Tribunal (VT) decision mentioned in my previous post. Visit the VT website for information about appealing council tax liability (you need to first appeal to the council and if you disagree with their final decision or they do not respond you can then appeal to the tribunal). Without knowing the full facts no one here can say if you would be successful but as you disagree with the charge the law says you have the right to appeal and ultimately get an independent decision as to whether the council are  interpreting the law correctly.  Have a look at the recent VT decisions regarding class f exemption in their feb 2023 newsletter: https://valuationtribunal.gov.uk/about-vts/valuation-in-practice/

lincroft1710

harpee said:

DontLikeCouncils said:

The council never even hinted at a problem or a time limit until this year. They suddenly announced that they had recently audited the property address, I have failed in my duty as executor, and in accordance with the common law "executors' year" they will now treat the dwelling as being in my sole name. They say as residuary beneficiary I have a freehold interest in the dwelling as set out by Section 6 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992.

They are demanding six years' back tax, a five figure sum, for 2017-2023 and CT for 2023-24.

Can they do any of this? I have not misled them or deliberately delayed probate. Why would I? 

...

I don't understand the legal justification for the demand and I wonder whether a relevant case has ever been decided in court.

I am not aware of a high court case but would refer you to the Valuation Tribunal (VT) decision mentioned in my previous post. Visit the VT website for information about appealing council tax liability (you need to first appeal to the council and if you disagree with their final decision or they do not respond you can then appeal to the tribunal). Without knowing the full facts no one here can say if you would be successful but as you disagree with the charge the law says you have the right to appeal and ultimately get an independent decision as to whether the council are  interpreting the law correctly.  Have a look at the recent VT decisions regarding class f exemption in their feb 2023 newsletter: https://valuationtribunal.gov.uk/about-vts/valuation-in-practice/

Unless the rules have changed, VTE decisions aren't binding on subsequent cases on similar or identical grounds, Of course they can be used to support such an appeal and one would hope for consistency in their decisions But I have personal experience of a VT disagreeing with the decision of a previous VT.

DontLikeCouncils

Thank you,  to harpee and lincroft1710 in particular.  That's just the kind of info I was hoping for. I need to know what the law actually says, not what some councils wish it meant or some individuals think it ought to mean. 

Any more info like this would be most welcome please.

Keep_pedalling

DontLikeCouncils said:

Thank you,  to harpee and lincroft1710 in particular.  That's just the kind of info I was hoping for. I need to know what the law actually says, not what some councils wish it meant or some individuals think it ought to mean. 

Any more info like this would be most welcome please.

I had another look at this, and I don’t think you are going to find anything laid out in black and white that covers your situation. Councils would appear to have significant leeway in how they apply the rules. In the vast majority of cases this will be 6 months from probate, but that assumes the estate administrator actually administered the estate in reasonable time. 

Would it not be best to hand the whole thing over to a solicitor to both get probate done and deal with the council on your behalf? 

https://365propertybuyer.co.uk/council-tax-class-f-exemption-deceased-estate/

Dave_5150

DontLikeCouncils said:

Thank you,  to harpee and lincroft1710 in particular.  That's just the kind of info I was hoping for. I need to know what the law actually says, not what some councils wish it meant or some individuals think it ought to mean. 

Any more info like this would be most welcome please.

Here you go https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/558/article/3/made 

Keep_pedalling

Dave_5150 said:

DontLikeCouncils said:

Thank you,  to harpee and lincroft1710 in particular.  That's just the kind of info I was hoping for. I need to know what the law actually says, not what some councils wish it meant or some individuals think it ought to mean. 

Any more info like this would be most welcome please.

Here you go https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/558/article/3/made 

That still does not cover the situation here, executors are  expected to carry out probate within a reasonable time frame. It is actually very hard to find any info on this unusual situation but I did find this statement from Sandwell MBC regarding long term empty properties, so councils can charge if they wish.

Long Term Empty Properties

From 1st April 2013 an additional premium of 50% will be charged on properties that are empty and unfurnished for two years or more. Please note that this additional premium may follow the award of a Council Tax exemption on properties left empty following the death of the liable person.

https://www.sandwell.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/5129/deceased_leaflet.pdf

Dave_5150

Keep_pedalling said:

Dave_5150 said:

DontLikeCouncils said:

Thank you,  to harpee and lincroft1710 in particular.  That's just the kind of info I was hoping for. I need to know what the law actually says, not what some councils wish it meant or some individuals think it ought to mean. 

Any more info like this would be most welcome please.

Here you go https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/558/article/3/made 

That still does not cover the situation here, executors are  expected to carry out probate within a reasonable time frame. It is actually very hard to find any info on this unusual situation but I did find this statement from Sandwell MBC regarding long term empty properties, so councils can charge if they wish.

Long Term Empty Properties

From 1st April 2013 an additional premium of 50% will be charged on properties that are empty and unfurnished for two years or more. Please note that this additional premium may follow the award of a Council Tax exemption on properties left empty following the death of the liable person.

https://www.sandwell.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/5129/deceased_leaflet.pdf

The link I shared is the law regardless of any view about the situation here.

There's no timescale mentioned to apply for or obtain probate in the relevant GOV.UK content about the Council Tax excemption. But there a definite six month period until Council Tax is payable once probate is granted.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-empty-properties#:~:text=If you're selling a,unoccupied

Many councils charge a premium on empty unocupied properties in line with the Sandwell council link. It has the potential to get very costly if it is left empty for a long period poentially rising to 4x the usual Council Tax for the property.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-empty-properties#:~:text=You can be charged an,for 10 years or more.

Keep_pedalling

Dave_5150 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Dave_5150 said:

DontLikeCouncils said:

Thank you,  to harpee and lincroft1710 in particular.  That's just the kind of info I was hoping for. I need to know what the law actually says, not what some councils wish it meant or some individuals think it ought to mean. 

Any more info like this would be most welcome please.

Here you go https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/558/article/3/made 

That still does not cover the situation here, executors are  expected to carry out probate within a reasonable time frame. It is actually very hard to find any info on this unusual situation but I did find this statement from Sandwell MBC regarding long term empty properties, so councils can charge if they wish.

Long Term Empty Properties

From 1st April 2013 an additional premium of 50% will be charged on properties that are empty and unfurnished for two years or more. Please note that this additional premium may follow the award of a Council Tax exemption on properties left empty following the death of the liable person.

https://www.sandwell.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/5129/deceased_leaflet.pdf

The link I shared is the law regardless of any view about the situation here.

There's no timescale mentioned to apply for or obtain probate in the relevant GOV.UK content about the Council Tax excemption. But there a definite six month period until Council Tax is payable once probate is granted.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-empty-properties#:~:text=If you're selling a,unoccupied

Many councils charge a premium on empty unocupied properties in line with the Sandwell council link. It has the potential to get very costly if it is left empty for a long period poentially rising to 4x the usual Council Tax for the property.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-empty-properties#:~:text=You can be charged an,for 10 years or more.

I think the following, later legislation also applies here which will allow the council to charge against a long term empty home regardless of whether that property qualifies for an exemption. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/17/section/12

DontLikeCouncils

Thank you for the new info. The house has not been and won't be unfurnished at any time between the death and the future probate. I believe "empty" means substantially unfurnished, such that one could not llve in it. Unless this has been reinterpreted as well!