Council Tax Class F cancelled before probate, long after "Executors' Year" [Merged]

Sadone

Have you checked their website to see If they have stated their new regulations on this? Also may I ask roughly what area of the UK your Mothers property is in?

Keep_pedalling

You can’t fight it, you don’t have an indefinite right to the exemption. Take the advice you were given in your last thread and appoint a solicitor to get the estate wound up and the house sold. As it stands you risk the LA carrying out a compulsory purchase order (CPO) 

Sarahspangles

I suspect the reason they are pursuing this now is that they are considering taking you to court and when they do any element of the charges that has been due for more than six years may be stature barred.

They did ask you to update them yearly - did you do that?

Ultimately this will be resolved when you sort probate and settle the estate.  What is in the way of doing that?

DontLikeCouncils

It's in the south east. The council's website still says that properties awaiting probate are exempt, with no hint at exceptions.

I have learned that a new interpretation of the law is allowing LAs to demand CT when the executor is the apparent beneficiary.

I accept that this is how it is from now on. My issue now is with the demand for arrears.

Is it fair or even legal to demand CT arrears due to a recent change in legal interpretation and an even more recent change in that council's policy?

Yes, they are threatening court action. The letter announcing their demand for arrears says that the law limits the period to six years.

Every year they sent a form, asking whether the property was occupied (no), whether furnished (yes), whether probate had been granted or applied for (no) and when it was expected (executor too ill to apply).

Some years I didn't get round to returning the form, including the last form. I struggle to keep up with things like that. (I struggle with life in general). 

They have never sent reminders. In the past they just sent a Class F letter.

In my present state of health I am unable to find the required papers etc for savings and investments (not of great value, but quite numerous). I cannot travel to the house. The title is unregistered and I hear it now takes years to get it registered so it can be sold.

Keep_pedalling

DontLikeCouncils said:

It's in the south east. The council's website still says that properties awaiting probate are exempt, with no hint at exceptions.

I have learned that a new interpretation of the law is allowing LAs to demand CT when the executor is the apparent beneficiary.

I accept that this is how it is from now on. My issue now is with the demand for arrears.

Is it fair or even legal to demand CT arrears due to a recent change in legal interpretation and an even more recent change in that council's policy?

Yes, they are threatening court action. The letter announcing their demand for arrears says that the law limits the period to six years.

Every year they sent a form, asking whether the property was occupied (no), whether furnished (yes), whether probate had been granted or applied for (no) and when it was expected (executor too ill to apply).

Some years I didn't get round to returning the form, including the last form. I struggle to keep up with things like that. (I struggle with life in general). 

They have never sent reminders. In the past they just sent a Class F letter.

In my present state of health I am unable to find the required papers etc for savings and investments (not of great value, but quite numerous). I cannot travel to the house. The title is unregistered and I hear it now takes years to get it registered so it can be sold.

Not true, and the transfer can go straight from the estate to the person who buys the house. 

You really have only one option if you can’t sort this out personally and that is to appoint a professional to do it for you

DontLikeCouncils

What discretion do councils have in collecting arrears in cases like this?

As for selling the house, however and whenever it was done it wouldn't provide the money to pay the CT arrears now.

Jowwie

Sorry to hear of your ill health. My mother struggled for many years with such financial matters due to mental health issues and strokes.

If your health has been poor for some years you may need to come to terms that it possibly will not improve to the point you are able to sort this yourself. Do you have any other relatives who you can ask to take this on for you? Someone you trust enough to leave them to get on with the task for you?

As mentioned, the services of a legal professional are almost certainly going to be required in your case as well, not just because of the council tax. There will be capital gains tax and possibly inheritance tax in addition to the possible property sale and probate application.

My mother had a house that for many years she could not deal with selling. As I was to be the executor of her estate anyway she eventually conceded to me to do all the organising around the sale for her such that she only needed to sign the paperwork. All proceeds went to her, but it was better from my perspective to sort this whilst she was still alive than try and pick up the pieces afterwards. There were many issues to deal with concerning the house such as years of unpaid bills, some utilities having been disconnected, no insurance, lots of post needing redirection. In my case the whole process of the sale took me over a year. My mother only visited the house a couple of times in this period and signed letters that the solicitor or I put in front of her. Days that she was not well enough we waited until she was. There was very little that she needed to do herself in honesty.

Councils - it would not surprise me if they can do this. My experience was being persuaded to submit an exemption form after my mother went into a care home which was accepted. Some months later I got a back dated empty property bill 25% higher than she had been paying before. You could try appealing or perhaps citizens advice. Perhaps a simple letter to the council saying you understand why you need to pay in future but not the back payment. You may also be able to agree a payment plan if you can demonstrate intent to get probate and sell the house. Again, a relative might be able to help you with all of this if you are not well enough.

msb1234

DontLikeCouncils said:

What discretion do councils have in collecting arrears in cases like this?

As for selling the house, however and whenever it was done it wouldn't provide the money to pay the CT arrears now.

How much is the house worth?

user1977

DontLikeCouncils said:

The title is unregistered and I hear it now takes years to get it registered so it can be sold.

You hear wrongly. It isn't necessary for the title to complete registration before you can sell, and in any event registration can be expedited.

harpee

You might want to consider appealing your council tax liability. The Valuation Tribunal's manual is easily found online and you can find there a summary of ZT v LONDON BOROUGH OF LEWISHAM [VTE, 5690M202173/084C, 1 

February 2018] which concluded that a beneficial interest in a deceased person's property was not sufficient for someone to be considered an owner who is liable for council tax.  There is no time limit on class F exemption until probate or letters of administration have been granted, provided the property remains unoccupied and hasn't been let/sold/transferred to a new owner.