Extending house

RebeccaCar

Hi there. I did a search but couldn’t find out if Highway or estate road. It is a big estate so I’m assuming estate roads but I’ll keep digging. 

The map below might help clear up what is around me. Basically I’m the end house. The photos were taken of the back of my house and the end of the drive. My gates lead to a lane which my row of houses and the street behind me use to access their garages. 

RebeccaCar

The shelter word is a bus stop. The grey is all public roads 

RebeccaCar

ProDave said:

Odd.  For me the pictures don't appear in the post above, but if I quote the post (I was going to say I cannot see the pictures) there they are?

I would want a solicitor picking over all the paperwork about the drive that you can find from the previous seller.  It certainly looks like it is or should be yours, but the point about making sure it is not "highway" is a very valid one.

I think i would start putting a simple structure like a shed or a car port on there and see if anyone says anything.

Thanks so much :-)

Section62

RebeccaCar said:

Hi there. I did a search but couldn’t find out if Highway or estate road. It is a big estate so I’m assuming estate roads but I’ll keep digging. 

There are exceptions, but bus companies will typically only serve roads which are (public) Highway.  Estate roads are effectively private roads.

Until you are sure it isn't (public) Highway I'd work on the basis it probably is.

If so, then there is a realistic possibility the verges were also part of the highway, and therefore your driveway could be on highway land.  That doesn't in itself rule out the possibilty you could extend, but you wouldn't be able to AP the land and you'd need the council (if they claim it as highway) to do a stopping up order to remove Highway rights.

The other thing to bear in mind is where you plan to park if you are building over the driveway.  An application to extend may be refused if it removes the off-street parking you have currently, without that being reprovided within the property boundary.  With some of the houses fronting onto a footpath rather than road, I'm guessing that on-street parking is already a bit of an issue sometimes?

RebeccaCar

Thanks for the advice, I’ll definitely find out re Highway. 

Regarding parking, we intend leaving some of the driveway there, only extending in line with the current house. Surprisingly parking is not an issue around here, lots of space and a car park just up the road. 

ProDave

RebeccaCar said:

The shelter word is a bus stop. The grey is all public roads 

The white area that appears to show your garden area appears to include the disputed driveway.

The green (grass verge) between the footpath and your wall probably is classed as "highway"  I researched this a bit when buying a building plot, and the law appears to be an unfenced area adjacent to a highway my be classed as highway up to 3 metres from the edge of the highway.  It might be worth measuring that grass verge, if more than 3 metres (at the point you are planning the extension) there would be little fear of anyone claiming your drive is "highway"  In any event the wording is unfenced land adjacent to the highway.  You have a great big brick wall that would stop any claim of your drive being highway.

Where did that map come from?  Was it the land registry, that is the map you want to be looking at if it was not the land registry.

Another useful mapping site is this one: https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/search

Agree to the T&C and pop your address in the search bar and post a screen grab (suitably anonymised) of what it shows.

RebeccaCar

ProDave said:

RebeccaCar said:

The shelter word is a bus stop. The grey is all public roads 

The white area that appears to show your garden area appears to include the disputed driveway.

The green (grass verge) between the footpath and your wall probably is classed as "highway"  I researched this a bit when buying a building plot, and the law appears to be an unfenced area adjacent to a highway my be classed as highway up to 3 metres from the edge of the highway.  It might be worth measuring that grass verge, if more than 3 metres (at the point you are planning the extension) there would be little fear of anyone claiming your drive is "highway"  In any event the wording is unfenced land adjacent to the highway.  You have a great big brick wall that would stop any claim of your drive being highway.

Where did that map come from?  Was it the land registry, that is the map you want to be looking at if it was not the land registry.

Thanks so much. I noticed that it included my driveway too- I got it from the council website. 

Does the 3 metres include the pavement or just the grassed area? Also can I measure the widest point as it’s like a semi-circle shape 

Section62

ProDave said:

The white area that appears to show your garden area appears to include the disputed driveway.

The green (grass verge) between the footpath and your wall probably is classed as "highway"  I researched this a bit when buying a building plot, and the law appears to be an unfenced area adjacent to a highway my be classed as highway up to 3 metres from the edge of the highway.  It might be worth measuring that grass verge, if more than 3 metres (at the point you are planning the extension) there would be little fear of anyone claiming your drive is "highway"  In any event the wording is unfenced land adjacent to the highway.  You have a great big brick wall that would stop any claim of your drive being highway.

Where did that map come from?  Was it the land registry, that is the map you want to be looking at if it was not the land registry.

The above are things which might apply with 'ancient' highway, i.e. highways which were established through use, but the legal position is different with 'developed' highways, which is what the OP is almost certainly dealing with if it isn't an 'estate road'.  The 'unfenced land adjacent to the highway' part relates to "roadside waste", which isn't applicable in this situation.

In this case the Highway will extend to the point where the council (as the developer) decided the highway land should be.  That can be far more than 3m, and also applies regardless of whether the land is fenced off or not.  There will be a plan, probably dating from when the estate was built, which will show which parts are Highway, which are 'estate roads', what is recreation or amenity, and what is housing.  This plan assigns ownership (and responsibility) for the land between the different council departments, in the same way an adoption plan would for a modern private development.  If it exists (they usually do) then that plan could now be used to determine where the highway boundary is.

The presence of the brick wall makes no difference.  E.g. if the Highway boundary was the flank wall of the OP's house then the driveway remains Highway and the brick wall is an unlawful obstruction of the Highway.

The map extract is from OS mapping.  This will show what the cartographer 'sees', and since there is a fenced-off driveway that is what will be added to the mapping database.  This has no effect whatsoever on the legal boundary, even if this is an extract the Land Registry have produced.

Niv

I drew a line from your back boundary line and it appears to follow the line of the house, anyone think there could be anything in this? Or could this just a complete coincidence? 

It probably adds no weight either way , but thought it worth pointing out.

ProDave

RebeccaCar said:

ProDave said:

RebeccaCar said:

The shelter word is a bus stop. The grey is all public roads 

The white area that appears to show your garden area appears to include the disputed driveway.

The green (grass verge) between the footpath and your wall probably is classed as "highway"  I researched this a bit when buying a building plot, and the law appears to be an unfenced area adjacent to a highway my be classed as highway up to 3 metres from the edge of the highway.  It might be worth measuring that grass verge, if more than 3 metres (at the point you are planning the extension) there would be little fear of anyone claiming your drive is "highway"  In any event the wording is unfenced land adjacent to the highway.  You have a great big brick wall that would stop any claim of your drive being highway.

Where did that map come from?  Was it the land registry, that is the map you want to be looking at if it was not the land registry.

Thanks so much. I noticed that it included my driveway too- I got it from the council website. 

Does the 3 metres include the pavement or just the grassed area? Also can I measure the widest point as it’s like a semi-circle shape 

What was the title and "use" of the map?  Does it have a key showing what the different coloured shadings mean, in particular the white shadings that we are taking to mean the extent of the gardens?