Is a healthy diet more expensive?

-taff

MattMattMattUK said:

The balance of probabilities already shows that in small amounts highly processed foods likely pose no negative impact to health.

Which is in effect, a guess that it isn't.

MattMattMattUK

-taff said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The balance of probabilities already shows that in small amounts highly processed foods likely pose no negative impact to health.

Which is in effect, a guess that it isn't.

The balance of probabilities shows that water, in small amounts is likely to pose no negative impact to health, but it would be impossible to prove that it does not cause any harm to anyone, as it is impossible to disprove a negative. 

-taff

You can repeat it all you like, but it's still a guess.

willow_loulou

Exodi said:

willow_loulou said:

I’ve started eating flax, nuts and semi dried no added sugar pears and prunes as an attempt to be healthy. Now I’m assuming they’re not good either 🙈

I'd say it depends how far down the rabbit hole you intend to go.

Nuts are high in polyunsaturated fatty acids, which is considered 'good fat' but they are also extremely calorie dense - probably one of the most calorie dense foods outside of lard and oil. I would personally (and many differ) recommend that someone hoping to maintain a calorie deficit should limit their intake of nuts in favor of more satiating foods. Those not seeking to lose weight, nuts are fair game!

Dried fruit is also misleading as it is effectively pure sugar. It's better than sweets, but it's much more nutritious to eat the fruit in it's natural form.

But this is why I said it depends how far you go, because those two things are relatively much healthier than a kebab and a pack of haribo. I feel like healthy eating is a balancing act between nutrition and satisfaction. While chicken, broccoli and rice might be nutritionally efficient, it’s also pretty miserable (from experience!).

I think you’re spot on, it is all relative. I buy the dried fruits because it’s easy for me especially first thing in the morning when my energy is very low. I’d rather scrambled egg but the energy required making and cleaning up is somewhat beyond me at least 50% of the time. 

I do make breakfast bakes sometimes and portion it up, maybe I’ll try to do more of those when I have cooking energy. 

As an aside, do you think tinned in juice is any good - as in n better than dried? 

Nelliegrace

I find it easy to eat just a few nuts, and to chop up a bit of fruit to add to porridge or muesli. I make a simple fruit cake or a malt loaf most Sundays and it lasts the two of us all week.

One problem with UPF is that it messes up your appetite, and it is easy to eat several portions of commercial cakes. 

Tinned fruit is fine in small portions, an occasional treat. Canning has been used for nearly 200 years as a means of preserving cooked fruit safely. There is no law that says you have to have the juice or syrup from the tin. I am showing my age, but we used to have the top of the milk, the cream, before we were conned into buying low fat stuff, and before milk was homogenised. Dried and bottled fruit, and jams and jellies, have been an part of our diet for centuries. There wasn’t much fruit available in Winter except the stored apples, until the first crop of forced rhubarb. Sugar was essential to preserve cooked fruit. We just ate a lot less of it in the past, and no fructose glucose syrup or chemical sweeteners.

@willow_loulou I have chronic fatigue too, and little things save effort. I use a wide glass dish to soak and microwave my porridge, and eat it from the dish.
I use a small glass bowl for a soft scrambled egg, cooked in the microwave, and eaten from the bowl. I add a little cheese or a few reheated vegetables leftover from dinner. When I make a pot of tea or coffee I pour some in a flask without adding the milk, to have another hot drink later. 

Longwalker

willow_loulou said:

Exodi said:

willow_loulou said:

I’ve started eating flax, nuts and semi dried no added sugar pears and prunes as an attempt to be healthy. Now I’m assuming they’re not good either 🙈

I'd say it depends how far down the rabbit hole you intend to go.

Nuts are high in polyunsaturated fatty acids, which is considered 'good fat' but they are also extremely calorie dense - probably one of the most calorie dense foods outside of lard and oil. I would personally (and many differ) recommend that someone hoping to maintain a calorie deficit should limit their intake of nuts in favor of more satiating foods. Those not seeking to lose weight, nuts are fair game!

Dried fruit is also misleading as it is effectively pure sugar. It's better than sweets, but it's much more nutritious to eat the fruit in it's natural form.

But this is why I said it depends how far you go, because those two things are relatively much healthier than a kebab and a pack of haribo. I feel like healthy eating is a balancing act between nutrition and satisfaction. While chicken, broccoli and rice might be nutritionally efficient, it’s also pretty miserable (from experience!).

I think you’re spot on, it is all relative. I buy the dried fruits because it’s easy for me especially first thing in the morning when my energy is very low. I’d rather scrambled egg but the energy required making and cleaning up is somewhat beyond me at least 50% of the time. 

I do make breakfast bakes sometimes and portion it up, maybe I’ll try to do more of those when I have cooking energy. 

As an aside, do you think tinned in juice is any good - as in n better than dried? 

Its no better then dried, but no worse either - in natural juice that is

Fruit is sugar, it only becomes "good" for you in its raw state, because of the roughage it provides, once its cooked ( tinned) or dried, its just really tasty sugar so then becomes a sweet treat rather then part of your 5 a day.

But it still contains vitamins which are needed - dried apricots are very good for you for example - high in potassium and vitamin A, also a good source of iron and are said to lower cholesterol 

If you could possibly take fruit in its natural form, that really would be the best, the ideal, but we all know life isnt like that and we have various issues to deal with so we do the best we can 

Another idea for breakfast which takes very little prep, just one bowl to wash, and is cheap, and filling is over night oats. Cheap porridge oats, plain yoghurt and frozen fruit. About 40grm of the oats in the bowl, add the plain yoghurt - about a small pot full over the top and then add frozen fruit , you can add your flax to the oats as well, then leave in the fridge overnight till the morning - breakfast is ready, just stir it all up. Its surprisingly tasty and filling. I use the bags of frozen berries from lidl and they last about 10 days, a large pot of yoghurt about 3 days and the porridge oats last forever so it seems Its healthy as it has the oats - cholesterol lowering and high fibre, the protein and calcium from the yoghurt and frozen fruit is the best option after fresh

Ring in the changes with your breakfast muffins which you can make the times you are feeling strong enough and freeze and you will be getting a good start to the day. I quite often have overnight oats at lunchtime, only using chopped fresh fruit as I find its very filling, satisfies my sweet tooth and keeps me going on those CBA days 

weenancyinAmerica

@willow_loulou - I got my friend to make his scrambled eggs in the microwave. Break eggs into a mug (he does two at  a time), stir and micro for 30 seconds, stir and microwave again for thirty seconds at a time until it is the firmness you like - usually only takes two or three 30-sec bouts in the microwave. I poach my eggs in the microwave - do the same as above but without stirring - third time I add grated cheese on top. I recommend covering the mug while microwaving with a small plate just in case. 

Nelliegrace

First few strawberries from the garden, a few wild cherries in the park which the birds had missed, and the loganberries are starting to ripen. It is not much, but all the better for being free. 
It won’t be long until the first blackberries ripen, and the little red and yellow cherry plums by one of the housing estates. 

willow_loulou

Thank you all for your lovely helpful comments- I’ll look at the way I eat fruit differently. I hadn’t even thought about frozen berries, that sounds really useful! I assume (I’ll check packs) they would be just like frozen peas and retain their goodness. 

Il try the overnight oats too - I’ve been putting it off because I’m not a huge fan of oats when I’m nauseous (bad fatigue days) but I’ll try them. It’s so helpful to have lived experiences to learn from x 

Bluegreen143

I’ve just finished reading Ultra Processed People too. 

I thought it was interesting (and relevant to this thread) that he says the very poorest households in the U.K. would need to spend up to 75% of their disposable income (I looked up the definition of this and it’s income after taxes but before bills etc have come off) to eat a diet meeting nutritional guidelines but with no UPF. For the average family it was 30% of income. Atm in the U.K. we apparently currently spend 6-8% of our income on food (compared to 11-14% in European countries) so if these figures are right it seems to suggest it IS much more expensive to eat healthily. 6-8% of income spent on food seems so low though that I wonder if it’s an accurate figure, we have a good income and I could never stick to that. I’m sure even when I was a SAHM and much more thrifty I spent more than that. I mean if your family bring in £2,000 that’s only about £150 a month spent on food. 

Out of interest I calculated and we are spending around 10-12% of our after tax income on food for our family of four - £450-500 a month. We both have good jobs and a budget surplus so we can afford that but I appreciate not everyone can. 

For the last three weeks I’ve almost cut out UPF (in my own diet - kids & husband eat some). There is the odd thing I’ve not cut out totally - shop bought mayo for example - but I’ve spent more to buy the kind with the least additives. Yesterday I bought the ONLY flatbread/wrap brand in Tesco with zero additives (it contains flour, salt, oil) and it was £1.20 for six small wraps versus about £1 for eight large wraps. Means I need to buy two packs for feeding a family of four. But they were nice. 

It would have been cheaper to make flatbreads, and I have the knowledge and skill to do so, but as a dual income family with young children time and energy can be tight. Sometimes I will make flatbreads as a fun activity with the kids but it’s not going to happen every time. So I think the more free time you have, you can bring the cost of the unprocessed diet down, but if you don’t want to spend all day in the kitchen it’s harder to spend less. 

We made pulled pork enchiladas with the wraps. The pork cost £10, plus there is the cost of all the other ingredients - tinned tomatoes, sweetcorn, peppers, black beans, garlic, spices, cheese. 

The pork did make two meals (we’d had tacos last week), two leftover lunches and I made soup with the stock from cooking it and a handful of meat. Is this cheaper than it would have been to eat nuggets and frozen chips instead? Hard to work it all out. But I know which diet I feel better on.