Is a healthy diet more expensive?

leftatthetrafficlights

pumpkin89 said:

Nelliegrace said:

@pumpkin89 Where is the evidence that HPF is safe in small amounts? Is it evidence sponsored by the food industry? Does it take into account all the different chemical additives mixed together and what they do to us?

The evidence is that billions of people have eaten it and (very rare tragedies relating to allergens aside) nobody has ever dropped dead instantly.  Overconsumption (probably over a long period of time) is what leads to illness.

Never known anyone to drop dead instantly after a couple of cigarettes either, doesn't nmean they're not toxic....

Farway

willow_loulou said:

Also - do we consider tinned food in this? For example I can make a huge slow cooker pea and ham soup with tinned ham and frozen peas, onion and stock. The ham has got much more expensive but still cheaper than equivalent weight fresh. 

Is ham itself too processed? 

This is how my kind works - it’s exhausting lol 

I think it depends on the ham, some is "reformed" AKA minced manky bits stuck together with meat glue

My guess is tinned ham falls into this category

Proper lump of cured pig will be better, and of course much more expensive

pumpkin89

leftatthetrafficlights said:

Never known anyone to drop dead instantly after a couple of cigarettes either, doesn't nmean they're not toxic....

They're not toxic in small amounts, which was the question asked.

Nelliegrace

It is Healthy Eating Week 2023, and initiative of the British Nutrition Foundation, supported by Kellogg's, General Mills, Quorn Foods, Sodexo, Coca-Cola GB, amongst others. 

leftatthetrafficlights

pumpkin89 said:

leftatthetrafficlights said:

Never known anyone to drop dead instantly after a couple of cigarettes either, doesn't nmean they're not toxic....

They're not toxic in small amounts, which was the question asked.

People not dropping dead instantly is not valid evidence that they are not toxic in small amounts. 

Considering that 25.9% of adults in England are obese and a further 37.9% are overweight but not obese and almost half of the UK population (45.7% of men and 50.1% of women) reported having a long-standing health problem, I think we all need to be very suspicious of what the food industry is peddling

willow_loulou

Farway said:

willow_loulou said:

Also - do we consider tinned food in this? For example I can make a huge slow cooker pea and ham soup with tinned ham and frozen peas, onion and stock. The ham has got much more expensive but still cheaper than equivalent weight fresh. 

Is ham itself too processed? 

This is how my kind works - it’s exhausting lol 

I think it depends on the ham, some is "reformed" AKA minced manky bits stuck together with meat glue

My guess is tinned ham falls into this category

Proper lump of cured pig will be better, and of course much more expensive

Yeah that’s what I feared. Thanks. 

pumpkin89

leftatthetrafficlights said:

People not dropping dead instantly is not valid evidence that they are not toxic in small amounts. 

Considering that 25.9% of adults in England are obese and a further 37.9% are overweight but not obese and almost half of the UK population (45.7% of men and 50.1% of women) reported having a long-standing health problem, I think we all need to be very suspicious of what the food industry is peddling

What you are talking about is ingesting small amounts on a frequent basis - i.e. in total not a small amount!

I'm simply saying that there is a difference between ingredients used in the Victorian era which were genuinely toxic (arsenic mints, anyone?) and the ingredients used in modern UPFs which are demonstrably not toxic in small amounts but may well be highly concerning in the excessive amounts currently consumed by many people.

Exodi

While I appreciate peoples definition of health may differ, as someone that is heavily into fitness, I'd have to agree that it is more expensive.

But there are manyyyyyyyy cheap carbohydrates - you can pick up a 2.5kg sack of potatos for £1.25 (12.5p per serving), 1kg of rice for 52p (4p per serving), carrots 55p per kg, etc. I die a bit inside knowing that the a significant amount of the population consumes frozen oven chips at a significantly higher markup (with added oil and dextrose).

I will however accept that fruit is generally not so cheap (especially when compared to something like biscuits).

The biggest issue is for sure protein - it is incredibly expensive. Adding lean meats like chicken breast, or rump, pork loin, or basically any type of fish, is a significant expense. I can understand why people gravitate to cheap frozen options (that may only contain less than 50% actual meat).

That said, I feel more often than not people use 'eating healthy is expensive' as an excuse. There is also the element of convenience at play - even if all healthy options were cheaper, many may still not choose them if they can't be put straight into the oven out the packet.

While some may rightfully point out that that £6 for 4 chicken breasts is expensive, the point becomes moot if they're also buying takeaways every week (something which I know is not uncommon, I have multiple siblings who have at least 2-3 takeaways a week unfortunately)...

thriftwizard

Certainly not actually toxic in the short term, but damaging to our gut inhabitants all the same... probably many natural ingredients are, too, but we wouldn't normally be exposed to them all the time. 

Can't help thinking that this issue, like tobacco & laudanum before it, is going to take an enormous amount of energy, political willpower & medical pressure to percolate through into the general public's consciousness. Certainly amongst people of my age (early 60s) there's still a feeling of "if it were dangerous, it wouldn't be allowed" added to "we've heard it all before! Ten years ago, bacon & coffee were killing us!" Says she who is totally failing to break her OH's addiction to supermarket bread...

-taff

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/15/humans-could-face-reproductive-crisis-as-sperm-count-declines-study-finds

so there's that...