Universal Credit Couples AET and Household CET

tifo

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

tifo

Page 13 of the budget costings:

"Removing the couples AET will treat all claimants equally, whether single or in a couple, with their individual earnings compared to the individual AET".

That makes more sense. So each person will have an individual AET, i.e. 15 hours a week or 18 hours later.

In answer to my own question, if 1 person is working and the other does not have to work search (LCW or LCWRA) then the AET will be (current) £617 than (current) £988. I always thought the couples AET applies even if 1 person is working, some on here say yes, some no, i.e. if my partner works they have to work for (couples) 24 hours upto AET £988  and not (individual) 15 hours a week for AET £617.

Unless i'm totally wrong in my thinking above.

As it stands at the moment, anyone earning above AET is put in light touch (inc non working partner in a couple) but from september this year they'll be given 'coach time' to be persuaded to earn towards the CET. Of course, many on here say that puts more money in your pocket but so it does for the govt at the 55% tax on earnings over the AET.

NedS

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Tommy_77723

NedS said:

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Would this £2630 a month be before or after monthly deductions?

I earn above this before deductions (£2668).

But my take home pay is £1976

Mr_Sockochris

Where did the figure of £2668 come from? With my imminent payrise I'll just be over this amount thankfully (assuming it's not a take home figure)

NedS

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Would this £2630 a month be before or after monthly deductions?

I earn above this before deductions (£2668).

But my take home pay is £1976

That would be net pay (take home) as that is what UC takes into consideration. Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

Tommy_77723

NedS said:

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Would this £2630 a month be before or after monthly deductions?

I earn above this before deductions (£2668).

But my take home pay is £1976

That would be net pay (take home) as that is what UC takes into consideration. Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

So my wage would not be enough? I am due a yearly pay rise of £1925 over the coming months... But if it's take home pay then this won't wake a difference? 

How much will my wife have to earn when our son turns 3 (October 2024)? 

NedS

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Would this £2630 a month be before or after monthly deductions?

I earn above this before deductions (£2668).

But my take home pay is £1976

That would be net pay (take home) as that is what UC takes into consideration. Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

So my wage would not be enough? I am due a yearly pay rise of £1925 over the coming months... But if it's take home pay then this won't wake a difference? 

How much will my wife have to earn when our son turns 3 (October 2024)? 

Assuming the Couple AET rate has been removed by Oct 2024 (my guess it will be April 2024), she would be expected to earn the equivalent of 18h/week at minimum wage, whatever that is in 2024. Otherwise she'll be attending weekly or fortnightly appointments at the jobcentre to help her look for work.

atlantis187

If someone claims carers allowance or the carers element will they also need to meet the 18 hours AET requirements to claim UC?

Spoonie_Turtle

atlantis187 said:

If someone claims carers allowance or the carers element will they also need to meet the 18 hours AET requirements to claim UC?

Shouldn't do, as they'd have no work related requirements.  (Unless they try to change that as well, but … unlikely.)