Universal Credit Couples AET and Household CET

Tommy_77723

NedS said:

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Would this £2630 a month be before or after monthly deductions?

I earn above this before deductions (£2668).

But my take home pay is £1976

That would be net pay (take home) as that is what UC takes into consideration. Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

So my wage would not be enough? I am due a yearly pay rise of £1925 over the coming months... But if it's take home pay then this won't wake a difference? 

How much will my wife have to earn when our son turns 3 (October 2024)? 

Assuming the Couple AET rate has been removed by Oct 2024 (my guess it will be April 2024), she would be expected to earn the equivalent of 18h/week at minimum wage, whatever that is in 2024. Otherwise she'll be attending weekly or fortnightly appointments at the jobcentre to help her look for work.

Will that figure be her monthly take home wage? 

Mr_Sockochris

If you're bringing home £2800+ then I struggle to think you'd qualify for UC anyway surely? I work 50hrs a week for well over minimum wage and my take home + current UC payment is not even £2600 so £2800 doesn't make sense....

Tommy_77723

Mr_Sockochris said:

If you're bringing home £2800+ then I struggle to think you'd qualify for UC anyway surely? I work 50hrs a week for well over minimum wage and my take home + current UC payment is not even £2600 so £2800 doesn't make sense....

Childcare costs lol

poppy12345

Mr_Sockochris said:

If you're bringing home £2800+ then I struggle to think you'd qualify for UC anyway surely? I work 50hrs a week for well over minimum wage and my take home + current UC payment is not even £2600 so £2800 doesn't make sense....

Just because you're not entitled to UC it doesn't mean others won't be. Everyone's circumstances are different. Others may have disabled children, so they are entitled to extra money in their UC, there's also the work allowance when a certain amount of earnings received are ignored before any deductions apply. other reasons such as someone with a disability that has limited capability for work so they receive extra money for this. There's also childcare costs as mentioned above.

NedS

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

Tommy_77723 said:

NedS said:

tifo said:

NedS said:

calcotti said:

guysl80 said:

If you consider my situation I always earn 2 to 2.5 times of the AET expected from Jan 2023. Some months I have a nil award or less than £230 due to high income . But my wife is not working and so far she has not been asked to looking for a job.

Even though I earn more than the expected amount will she be asked to look for work once the new changes are implemented.

As already advised we don’t yet know clearly how things will work. We need for details. However my interpretation is that the implication is
- that if you earn over the AET threshold for one person but less than CET your partner would be required to look for work (unless excluded for some other reason), and
 - if you earned more that the CET for a couple then your partner would not be required.

I'd amend the above to read household CET, which for a couple is 2 times the individual CET. i.e, the working partner must earn enough for both to be over their individual CET's for the non-working partner not to have to look for work. If the working partner is only exceeding their own CET, then that will move them into the Working Enough regime, but not their partner.

As it stands at the moment, if 1 partner earns above the AET but below the CET then both are placed in light touch (personal experience though i then got LCW and then have work preparedness requirements) and no work search requirements. I would think that it would be the same with going above CET otherwise there is no point reaching that threshold. Thinking about it logically, 1 person in the couple can be earning £988 (current AET) and both have no work requirements yet it's said on here that if 1 couple earned above CET then the other person would need to work search or 1 person is would be expected to earn 2 x CET which is a high paid job.

Maybe, but don't forget the distinction between Working Enough and Light Touch, and the non-working partner is only in Light Touch by way of the Couple AET which is going to be abolished.

Earnings of £988 (current couple AET) would place both members of the couple into Light Touch, neither would be in the Working Enough regime (assuming 35h/week conditionality).

Earnings above the CET (around £1315; 35h x NMW) would place that person in Working Enough and their partner would still remain in Light Touch (due to the couple AET). If the couple AET is abolished (as proposed), they'd be in Intensive unless their partner earns enough for BOTH of them - 2 x CET, or approx £2630/month.

So the effect of the Couple AET rate being removed is that the working partner must now earn £2630 instead of £988 to get their partner out of looking for work.

Would this £2630 a month be before or after monthly deductions?

I earn above this before deductions (£2668).

But my take home pay is £1976

That would be net pay (take home) as that is what UC takes into consideration. Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

So my wage would not be enough? I am due a yearly pay rise of £1925 over the coming months... But if it's take home pay then this won't wake a difference? 

How much will my wife have to earn when our son turns 3 (October 2024)? 

Assuming the Couple AET rate has been removed by Oct 2024 (my guess it will be April 2024), she would be expected to earn the equivalent of 18h/week at minimum wage, whatever that is in 2024. Otherwise she'll be attending weekly or fortnightly appointments at the jobcentre to help her look for work.

Will that figure be her monthly take home wage? 

Yes. The thresholds are based on hours worked at NMW, less any tax and NI that may be due. If she can meet the threshold by working less hours at a higher hourly rate, then that's fine too as UC is only ever interested in monetary amounts.

tifo

NedS said:

Assuming the Couple AET rate has been removed by Oct 2024 (my guess it will be April 2024), she would be expected to earn the equivalent of 18h/week at minimum wage, whatever that is in 2024. Otherwise she'll be attending weekly or fortnightly appointments at the jobcentre to help her look for work.

From September this year, those earning above the AET but below CET will be 'offered' work coach time to help them increase their earnings.

At the moment they're left alone in 'light touch'.

tifo

NedS said:

Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

If one partner has LCW/LCWRA and have no work search requirements (like me) then this will continue (for the moment)?

In line with changes, anyone earning above AET and below CET will be asked to see a work coach and not left alone like they are at the moment. But if the other partner has no work search requirements I assume they will stay as they are?

My experience of LCW is that the DWP are actively encouraging claimants to look and take up for, even though the claimant has no work search requirements. I've to see a work coach every few weeks and the convo is always "what have you done to look for work etc, but don't worry, you don't have to search for it". They encourage everyone to go on work preparation activities, in my case these are no use to me at the moment, but it's a tick box exercise for them.

I always thought that if 1 person of a couple earns above AET or CET they're both left alone, like at the moment with AET. But on here it's posted that both people have to meet CET requirements. So, 1 person can earn above AET and both are left alone but if 1 person earns above CET then the other partner has to earn above CET too. Doesn't seem to follow right?

NedS

tifo said:

NedS said:

Don't forget AET/CET thresholds will also rise in April by nearly 10% as NMW rises from £9.50 to £10.42/hour, so the CET is likely to be around £1410 (for 35h), and for 2 x CET would be around £2820 net after April.

Government policy intent here is pretty clear - they don't want partners sat at home not working. Both members of a couple will be expected to look for work if they are not the main carer of child under 3 or sick/disabled etc.

If one partner has LCW/LCWRA and have no work search requirements (like me) then this will continue (for the moment)?

In line with changes, anyone earning above AET and below CET will be asked to see a work coach and not left alone like they are at the moment. But if the other partner has no work search requirements I assume they will stay as they are?

My experience of LCW is that the DWP are actively encouraging claimants to look and take up for, even though the claimant has no work search requirements. I've to see a work coach every few weeks and the convo is always "what have you done to look for work etc, but don't worry, you don't have to search for it". They encourage everyone to go on work preparation activities, in my case these are no use to me at the moment, but it's a tick box exercise for them.

I always thought that if 1 person of a couple earns above AET or CET they're both left alone, like at the moment with AET. But on here it's posted that both people have to meet CET requirements. So, 1 person can earn above AET and both are left alone but if 1 person earns above CET then the other partner has to earn above CET too. Doesn't seem to follow right?

It's complicated, even at the moment.

AET and CET are earnings thresholds, and as such ONLY apply to people in the All Work Related Conditionality groups (Working Enough, Light Touch and Intensive Work Search regimes)

AET and CET do not apply / are not relevant to claimants in other conditionality groups such as No Work Related Requirements (LCWRA, Carers, Child under 1 or pregnant within 11 weeks, certain qualifying students), Work Focused Interview (Child aged 1-2, foster carers) and Work Prep (LCW, child aged 2-3) regimes.

If a claimant has LCW or is main carer for a child aged 2-3 and is in the Work Prep regime, they will be expected to attend appointments even if their partner is earning 10 x CET as the CET bears no relevance to their circumstances because it is an earnings threshold and they are not expected to be earning anything, only preparing for possible future work.

Under the budget changes (that is, changes to the AET), it will make no difference to anyone who is not in All Work Related Conditionality groups. If you have LCWRA you will not be required to attend appointments and nothing in the budget changes that.

What does potentially change that is the proposed disability white paper, but that is just a proposal and is many years away from ever becoming a reality.

tifo

NedS said:

Under the budget changes (that is, changes to the AET), it will make no difference to anyone who is not in All Work Related Conditionality groups.

But with the AET changing to £617 for single and £988 for a couple from 30 Jan 2023, it means that anyone earning over £782 (couple) previously will now need to earn over £988, that means more work and more deduction to the DWP (55p per £1). That's another £113.30 to the DWP if you keep to the minimum and many don't.

And from September this year those earning over AET and under CET will need to meet with a work coach, at the moment they don't have any work requirements.

calcotti

As previously advised all AET goes up in April due to the increase in NMW. £667 for single person and £1,083 for a couple.