Excel Parking ticket - on university grounds

teamum16

Snakes_Belly said:

"There is very little parking around the area of campus I work in and so, for the past 15 years, I have been parking regularly on a driveway at the side of a university owned building along with 4 or 5 others.  It is a single driveway so we do park behind each other, effectively blocking each other in, but the agreement has always been to leave contact details with estimated time of leaving on our dashboards and we always move cars within 5-10 mins of being contacted. It has never been a problem and before Excel took over the parking, no tickets were ever issued."

Excel have been known to issue pcn's where they have no authority to do so. If you have appealed to IAS there may be a map of the area that they cover. 

I haven't appealed to the IAS, is this the Independent Appeals Service and something I should have done?

I currently waiting on whether the university will provide me with information for when Excel were first instructed to act on their behalf and whether this was communicated to staff in any way as, to my and my colleagues knowledge, the only way we know is the small writing on the signs (although I guess this doesn't negate the fact I was parked supposedly blocking other).  I have also asked the Parking Estates Manager on their take of the private arrangement I have had with my colleagues. I'm not sure I will hear anything but it's worth a try.

Snakes_Belly

An appeal to the IAS would have been rejected. 

I made the mistake of appealing to IAS and there was a plan of the car park on their images. Another poster was ticketed near to this car park but on the road.

In some of the airport cases the motorist has been ticketed on land that Excel have no jurisdiction over. It's best to try and find out what their remit actually is.   

fisherjim

How long after the introduction of Excel was the PCN issued?

The IPC COP clearly states that a running in period must be allowed:

Changes in Operator’s Terms and Conditions
Where there is any change to any pre- existing terms and conditions that would not be
immediately apparent to a person visiting the Car Park and which materially affects
the Motorist the Operator should place additional (temporary) notices at the entrance
making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors
who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur Parking Charges.

Notices should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an
appropriate period.

teamum16

fisherjim said:

How long after the introduction of Excel was the PCN issued?

The IPC COP clearly states that a running in period must be allowed:

Changes in Operator’s Terms and Conditions
Where there is any change to any pre- existing terms and conditions that would not be
immediately apparent to a person visiting the Car Park and which materially affects
the Motorist the Operator should place additional (temporary) notices at the entrance
making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors
who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur Parking Charges.

Notices should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an
appropriate period.

Thanks Fisherjim, this is interesting. I don't know how long Excel have been instructed for, I'm trying to find out. I can say, that I have never seen any additional notices.

teamum16

Hello again. My court case is next month and I'm almost ready to submit my witness statement. I have received the statement from Excel which essentially said that the fact I paid for parking and had a valid employees permit doesn't matter and they keep referring to their point that I wasn't 'wholly within a designated parking bay'. They have provided an aerial photo that outlines the whole driveway in red to highlight the parking bay plus photos of me parked in that area, so I'm not sure what they can prove with this.

I have been in contact with the parking manager at the university querying why this is ongoing, stating I was parked in a designated area.  I asked for his view on the fact that I was parked in front of some of the other users of the parking area and he said that whilst there have been no complaints on record, he has heard that this does upset some people (and anecdotally, I have heard the opposite as it allows people to park!). He then admitted that signs that once allowed people to park in this way have been removed. He said the warden did try to contact me on the phone number left in my card (I have no evidence for or against this as it was May 2022) and I didn't answer, therefore the manager instructed the warden to give me a ticket - this seems to suggest I was penalised due to parking in front of others -  I asked them to enforce the PCN on the basis that the warden attempted to contact you, you were not parked in accordance with the terms and conditions, i.e. obstructing another vehicle. If an appeal is unsuccessful you have the opportunity to go to an independent adjudicator as explained in the outcome letter, but it does not look like you took the opportunity to do this. - admittedly this I didn't do as I had already appealed to the university and Excel without success, and from what I read an appeal to the independent would have been rejected

My question is, considering that Excel, in their witness statement have made no reference to this at all (they have included the t&c's of my permit which does state 'vehicles must not park so as to cause obstruction or inconvenience to others), should I bring this to the courts attention? Or just rely on the not parked in a designated bay bit?

I am going to go back to him with the IPC COP above as I don't believe we had any notice of the change in conditions and certainly considering there were a number of cars parked there I can't have been the only one to not know

Many thanks

Coupon-mad

Absolutely do not show that email in evidence.

Your main point for your WS is a change in parking terms was not communicated prominently. If it was courteous for staff to park like that in previous months/years, why would any driver think this courteous parking arrangement that suited the staff, had changed? 

This is why the IPC CoP says what it says about changes in restrictions.

He said the warden did try to contact me on the phone number left in my card.

That's a lie.  Completely forget it and don't even mention this complaint to the Uni, at the hearing.

teamum16

OK, thank you. I wasn't planning on producing the email as evidence as I was hoping he would call it off but doesn't look like it unfortunately.  

I guess I want to know whether to bring up the blocking of other cars at all considering that is not the reason stated by Excel for the parking ticket. Also, can I rely on the fact that parking terms have changed when I have no evidence (other than that email) to show that this was ever the case, that blocking in was allowable. The terms and conditions are on a webpage which have obviously been updated and I have never saved them and I have no photos of the old signage.

Coupon-mad

Your oral evidence is your evidence.  And you are going to be the only true witness at the hearing.

Show us that webpage.  Maybe a poster can use the Wayback machine to find the previous iteration,

teamum16

Show us that webpage.  Maybe a poster can use the Wayback machine to find the previous iteration,

Thank you so much for this advice. Although I couldn't get the terms and conditions, I've found on google maps backdated a picture of the sign at the parking space stating that blocking is permitted and to leave name and number etc on the car.

I'm going to add that to my WS today.

Can I c&p my WS here for review or do I need to attach a word doc somewhere?
Thank you!

Coupon-mad

Copy & paste here is good. More people will look at a reply than click on a link.